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5.45x39 bolt gun!

4K views 24 replies 6 participants last post by  1biggun 
#1 ·
http://www.carolinashootersclub.com/threads/3594-5-45-Bolt-gun

you know i often wondered why some of the most popular mill-surp rounds are ignored by the "big guys".

it looks like they should have come out with a 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 bolt actions way back in the 90s to me.

on the line the 5.45x39 is doing 1.5" groups -- not super gooper match --

but certainly good enough for a scout rifle shooting a max of 400m --and that is about all the 5.45 will do anyway.

would have made a hell of a survival rifle IMHO. a 5.45x39 bolt rifle with a 20" or more of barrel --with a decent scope, a man could live in the hills a long time sitting on a tin or two--LOL!
 
#3 ·
Zastava/CZ make 223 & x39 bolt guns, and several other calibers too. I've got the 223 and it's sweat as hell and shoots great, I love it. There imported by Century, mine was 299 when i got it. Sadly they didn't offer the mannlicher stocks till after i got mine or I'd have gotten one of those. Might get one of those in x39 though. There a typical Mauser action with the safety on the side and come with a adjustable trigger very nice bluing and a decent straight grained walnut stock. I didn't look but I think there up to around 329 now,,not sure? The only thing I found is that I thought the stocks were a bit light colored and pretty dry. I darkened mine up somewhat and put some oil on it. Looks better now.

Really Nice gun though and light too, mines 6.2 without a scope,7ish with one, nice to carry.
 
#4 ·
hMMM $500 for a gun to shot inaccurate corrosive ammo that is over 1" MOA is IMO no the the smartest move. Cant you get one stock in 223 for about $300 ?

If there was a good ammo or brass avaliable in this cal an I had a AK 74 Id think it would be cool but i dont really see this being a big seller or that much of a good idea .

a 1.5" MOA is pretty bad at long range on things that a gun like this might be good for like varmints or shootng targets .

Nope Ill stick with a 223 that does every thing better an likely cheaper if you reload .

The lack of good ammo kills the idea for me . now if I had 10,000 rounds of the ammo Id maybe consider it but Id likely just shoot it in a AK 74 thats Id build that would be abut as accurate an have SA ability .

I wont be supriesed if we see imorted ammo go by by some day soon an then it wuld be pretty much worth less . yes 223 cases can be used to make cases but whats the point?

then there is the issue of poor bullet selection also for the smaller bore

ILL pass
 
#5 ·
LOL-- yea $500 is a bit much-- for a 5.45

now a $235 axis would be more like it. maybe a stainless steel axis for $300--LOL!

no it ain't a match round --what do you expect for $0.20 a round in 2013???

a better ides would be a inexpensive bolt gun with bolt on barrels with a "fixed" hear-space like the m16s & ar-15s . sell the rifle for $250 and the spare barrels for $100 in all the ar-15/AK rounds to fir whatever ammo you got on hand.

you can get a 1.5" out of an ar-15 in 5.45 , the limiting factor is the steel jacketed steel core bullets are not uniform size , russia 7.62x39 mill surp is the same way.

i don't see anybody shooting match with m855 either--

in the next couple years i'll bet obongo banns ALL imported ammo and reloading supplies.
 
#6 ·
The Cz527 is available in 7.62x39, as well as other calibers. It is actually quite accurate out to 100 yards. That is as far as I have fired mine anyways.
 
#7 ·
Those are the ones I was talking about from Century, there just marked Zastava as apposed to CZ. They both come off the same line, some are just marked for import by CZ. I love the 223 I've got and 2-300m shots on yotties is no big deal at all with it. Very nice for 329, mine was 299 when i got it a couple years ago. But like everything else they've gone up some now.

I'm considering getting one of the x39's with the mannlcher stock too Fyredup, so they do shoot pretty decent ? 100m-150m is about a good max range for the x39 IMO and much more you loose allot of your power after that anyways. As long as they'll hold 1moa that would be just fine,,you don't need a 300 Win-mag for deer sized targets and the x39 is right in the 30-30 range ballistics wise and should work just fine. Especially if you reload them with some decent projectiles like A-max or a good SP/BT Serria, I'd think they should be pretty good for deer, ect.
 
#8 ·
for a pure survival rifle --be tough to beat a $299 rifle and a $200 tin with 1080 rounds in it. if it will do 1.5" groups or better with 7nl 5.45 surplus that should be enough accuracy for survival purposes.

sure you could work up a round to do sub 1" but is that practical for a survival rifle? can you load up 1000 rounds for $0.20 or less today?



many deer went the meat grinder via a single 223 shot round here. i'm pretty sure a single 5.45 hit in any head,spine, heart area would be death for a deer.

folks around here killed deer frequently with .22LR and deer meet was a staple during the depression.

the idea of these giant guns in the uber magnum class to hunt white tails is just some pissing contest by city-slickers.

i think the idea behind the uber-magnum cannon is "the deer will fall before it runs off the deer-camp lease" and it seems to me that many of these guys with the uber mag cannons seem to miss a lot--LOL

i know several serious SHTF survival types that stocked up on 22mag.

yea i agree a 7.62x39 bolt action would be better --but its ammo TODAY is more expensive.

i have a 5.45x39 ar-15 upper and a few AK series in this cal so i ain't hurting.

the down side of surplus 5.45 is it is around today. -- tomorrow??? then you can also say that about ALL ammo and RL supplies. if the big "O"/bloomburg gets his way were all going to be SOL regardless of cal or type of firearm.

still lots of 7.62x54 around-- about $0.18 a pop too--
 
#9 ·
if were talking a bolt action a a survival gubn how much ammo you plan on shooting to off set the costs the cheaper 5.45 ammo?


I can load 223 pretty damn cheap an there are dies everywere. a brass 2223 case for good for 10 loadings or so the steel 5.45 is basicaly a throw away case .

at least with a 7.62x39 bolt gun there is some decent ammo commercial available an reladable brass . the x39 on a good bolt gun wiht good ammo can be almost bench rest compeditive in certain classes . there is good brass for it un like the 5.45 .

a 1.5" MOa bolt action is not what id want for head snaping deer or hubnthing much at all fior that matter . at 300 yards its going to be a miss big time .

The lack of good ammo is the problem nit the round its self . it likley has some pluses if it had good brass avaiable for it .

I considered a 5.45 shorty pistol due to the ammo beibg the cheapest I could do on a ak plat form an not need to reload but I still think a 223 an reloading would be a better ideas .
 
#10 ·
I'm considering getting one of the x39's with the mannlcher stock too Fyredup, so they do shoot pretty decent ? 100m-150m is about a good max range for the x39 IMO and much more you loose allot of your power after that anyways. As long as they'll hold 1moa that would be just fine,
An a 308 win will do every thing better , much better with no down side IMO .

I doubt you go hunting with cheap ammo an good x39 ammo is likely more than good 308 win hunting ammo . If tis meat damage or recoil doan load or buy reduced recoil loads for the 308.

IMO the IMO the 5.45x39 an 7.62x39 bolt guns a break opens an what not are only attractive when ammo was $60 a case an you wanted it jsut to shoot a plink a lot .

I have killed a bunch of deer in 7.62x39 an there is a reason I use a 300 svage pistol now .

. Especially if you reload them with some decent projectiles like A-max or a good SP/BT Serria, I'd think they should be pretty good for deer, ect.
IMO thats a option if your stuck with only a rifle in that calibre but everything you going to do to improve the x39 will work better in 308 win or 300 savage or 30-06 an all can be loaded to lower levels . I would never purposly buy a a marginal poweer rifle for deer intentioaly it makes no sence.

If you want one to just shoot for fun great I jsut dont see the whole getting it to hunt deer . might be a good pig round at a 100 yards but then again so is a 308 win or every other bigger 30 cal offering .

I hate chasing stuff I like a littel extra .
 
#11 ·
Price was right, included a decent scope, and I have some ammo on hand. For me the Cz527 was a good choice.

I guess I don't see much difference between the guys who like the 30-30, and the soft point round of the 7.62x39. But to each his own.
 
#12 ·
I guess I don't see much difference between the guys who like the 30-30, and the soft point round of the 7.62x39. But to each his own.
thats the problem its only almost as good as a 30-30 . Its actulay a much inferior round in the 30-30 IMO . A 30-30 with a 150 grain bullet m that is made to deform at 2300 fps is much better than a 125 grain bullet that may or may not deform at the same speeds.

I have no problem using a x39 on deer but as some one who has shot a bunch of them wiht one please be sure you use good ammo ( not wolf ) an the correct bullet an keep the range under 175 yards an only take good shoots. I have pulled to many almost complety perfect bullets out of deer to reliaze that the reound is marginal over 175 yards or so an that bullet performance better be good . I have gotten luck a few times .

Im not slaming the gun or a 30-30 a yea I know there have been likely ore deer killed with it than any other round BLa bla there also have been more wounded with a 30-03 than any other round also . I have had to track to many my self .

I dont know what you paid for your gun an Im sure its a great gun . IMO however If I was going to go out an buy a new gun for deer hunting It would not be a 7.62x39 or a 30-30 an I have both . for the same money you can get a 308 , 30-06 , 7mm 08 , 270 etc that will all do a much better job for the same or likely less money .

its funny to most guys a 30-30 is a marginal gun on deer best used at short range but to AR guys the 30-30 is a super deer gun so the 300 BO an the 7.62x39 an simular are almost as good so know they think they have a great deer rifle . LOL

If I was hunting from a stand or in cover were my shots were a 100 yards or so Id say great a 30-30 or 7.62x39 it fine an I do still hint wiht a x39 but I have much better guns in much better caliburs that work good at close range an at long range .

BTW that bolt action can likley be loaded up a lot hotter than any factroy ammo will be. The action will likley handel 65,000 PSI . an the 7.62x39 can be greatly imporved on if hand loaded in a bolt action . you can get it close to a 300 savage. If I hunted with a bilt action x39 Id relaod for it . an load it to pressures the gun can handel . Bullet expansion is critical on tis round an its so close to not expanding that a 150 fps can really make a differance in this case .

I have shot deer with 150 grain x39 at 200 yards an had OK expansion but he deer took off running . on the smae deer i managed to get a second identical round into it at close to 300 yards the bullet had zero expansion so the extra 100 yards aproximenty an the loss of speed made theat bullet almostr worth less . I lietaly could have reloaded the bullet back in a case an reused it . I dont know if you reload or not but If not Id gewt some one to load specificaly for that rifle if your going to hunt with it .

There is a reason I use a 300 savage ak pistol now instead of the x39 .
 
#13 ·
I know my limitations and frankly I would never take a shot at a deer over 100 yards. I have no desire to wound one and have it running around only to die and be wasted.
 
#14 ·
I know my limitations and frankly I would never take a shot at a deer over 100 yards. I have no desire to wound one and have it running around only to die and be wasted.
then you should be fine . the problem I have with x39 an simular bolt guns is there pleanty accurate enought to jit deer at 300 nut there severly lacking in power . to many guys will take that stupid shot on that big buck an pray it drops before it crosses a fence or high way .

Im mainly pointing out a gun like a 308 or simular allows you to do the same just 300 yards further for the same money an weight . around WI were your at long shots are few how ever over half the deer I have taken in wi since I came here in 92 have been over 200 yards an some were much further . I would have been screwed with a x39 or a 30-30 . I got lucky IO on the deer I have killed at longer range with the AK rilfes an pistols an relise it enough to quit .

that pair of buck I got a 220 yard with the x39 an the low bullet expansion a poor penitration was enough tell me I was pushing my luck /

I have no issue taking a 300 yard shot with my 30-06 an have shot a lot of them that far out west .

when I lived out west I think a x39 bolt action would have made a great pig gun.

Like I said that gun is built to handel much more pressure than the 45,000 PSI limit that Sammi puts on the 7.62x39 . if it were mine an i hunted with it my hand loads would be in the 60,000 PSI range an the bolt thrust would still be under the guns design limits . the eXtra littel bit of speed on this round in perticular would really help bullet expansion, Id also consdier 150 grain bullets at short range.

some were my son has the bullet I pulled out of a deers shoulder that was hit at about 300 an it is almost undamaged Ill try to find it an post a pic . It had about 2" of penetration . Thankfully it was only a follow up shot oin a deer that was already hit at 200 yards an was going down any way or it would have suffered ,

GOOD LUCK
 
#15 ·
I got ya biggun1. I know that in many instances the 7.62x39 is not the optimal deer rifle, but I believe within the parameters I have set, and with your advice, I can make it work for me.

I bought my son a .308 bolt action Savage rifle a couple of years ago for deer hunting. He wanted a .243 or a .270, but after talking to hunters around here and telling them what he planned to do all suggested either a .308 or a .30-06. With his youth and enthusiasm he will take much longer shots than I would attempt.
 
#16 ·
If he cant kill it with a 308 or 06 he should not be shooting at it .

a 243 is another gun that is good a wounding deer if improperly used . I have abunch of familay an friends who hunt with them an they do kill a lot of deer but they have had some bad experiances also .

I hunt ocasionaly with a 244 rem / 6mm rem an IMO its marginal on some bigger deer an bullet selection is important . My 13 year old hunts with it but he will be going to a bigger rifle next year . MY grand mother used it from 1958 unitll abut 15 year ago an it has likked a lot of deer but wounded a few that maybe a littel more energy would have stopped .

I have no issue with a 270 an IMO is a great ground if your shooting longer distances reguarly other wise it wont do any thing a a 30 -06 wont do better at 350 yards IMO .

its hard to beat a fast moving 30 cal on deer out to 300 or even further . big differace between a 243 an a 270 .

I started with 30-06's 40 years ogo an I have never regreted the decison my dad made for me as far as calibure choice on deer . a 308 will do pretty much the same thing .

when I was 14 I felt if I could see them I could shoot them an backed up that notion a few times with a few 500 yard across canyon shots . hunting out west is a whole differant ball game than here in WI . I know lots of guys who have never shoot 100 yards here there whole lives . I never saw a tree stand untill moving here in 92 .

Id like to have one of those zastivas or how ever there marked in 7.62x39 so I could rebarrel it in 6mmPPC for a varmint rifle . the bolt face is correct for 22ppc, 6mm ppc an 6.5 grendal . :) I missed a 7.62x39 rem 700 a few years ago an am still kicking my self I really wanted the action fior a custom build .
 
#17 ·
biggun your talking hunting -- i'm talking survival

sure a 300 mag or what not is better for hunting deer.


back during the great depression the .22 rimfire killed most of the deer in this state. the more upscale poachers of the 70s liked the .22 mag--


i have a uncle that has hunted with .223 rem for years , i forget how many deer he has killed with it , just about all of them with one shot too. everybody and their brother keeps telling him --that .223 is too small to take deer!

sure if i was wanting to deer hunt i would go 7mm-08 or something like that.

most of our deer are killed at an avg of 80M --sots rarely get out to 200m or more-- a rifle that can print a 1.5" can do easy head shots up to 150M which is about as far as your going to get to shoot anyway (for deer in this area)

this ain't the western plains.

i have got some pastures where i can shoot 500M or more , i never see any game in them during the daytime. at night deer will venture out into the open -- if i had to take some of them come nightfall in the big pastures thir still going to be 100M shots--
 
#18 ·
I got more 308's than I can shake a stick at. And defiantly 308 will do everything just fine. I get a laugh when some of these city folks come up from jersey and bring a 300 Win Mag for deer too,,,,gimmie a break!!,, Just a bit of overkill wouldn't ya say? I'm just looking for an excuse to get another rifle myself,,that's why the x 39 bolt gun,,just cause,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I don't have one yet!!

Hell that's enough of a excuse for me!!:lol::lol:
 
#19 ·
308 is damn fine all arounder -- only thing is i wasn't able to get a spam can full of 308 for $0.11 a round like the 5.45! LOL!

around here with the deer hunters "bigger is better". although for many years the most popular iron was a 30-30. one of my pals who is a very serious hunter has killed more deer with a .44 mag than all the other rifles he has. and that ia s bunch of deer over the lase 30 years.

truthfully it don't take a lot to kill white-tail deer and 200M is about as far as you can expect to get a shot anyway, with the avg kill being 50-80M obviously most people are just burning powder for nothing--lol

now if i was shooting a grizzly bear i would want a big gun and want a little more space--LOL!
 
#20 ·
A 308 or other bolt action rifle will do any thing a 7.62 or 5.45 will do in a survival situation an likey do it better .
there is no accurate 5.45 ammo to speak of so do you guys really want a 2moa or worse rifel for your survival rifle ? I sure dont .

lets be honest the only attractivce thing about a 5.45 in a bolt action is ammo is less money right now . it will likley be unavaliabe in a Shtf situation as all an it might be un available soon if import of it gets stoped . who would intentional go buy a gun that has no available accurate ammo un less its cheap?

Fyredup was talking abiut his buying a 7.62x39 using it for deer I gaver IMO pretty good reasons why ther are much better guns .

in a shtf situation came will become more scarce an non existatn pretty fast . im going to want a gun thats good for more than 200 yards for both survival an hunting .

i have enough ammo in 308 an 30-06 to hunt for mor ethasn a fe w years an I doubt ill be using thousands of rounds of a bolt gun in a defensive or survival situation ever even if were invaded . If we are invased 223 an 308 will be the ammo that our govermnet has stocked an could concieavalble be avlaibale for a civilian defensive use . If were attcked by or own county then it will be 223 an 308 we will be staliang from them not 5.45 .

an Im going to be honset with you if I have to fight a enemy woith my own gun its not going to be some bato apporeved bull shit solid point its going to soft points an hollow points that kill you dead with lees chance of survival . there is no 5.45 other than solid point to speak of ( correct tme if Im wrong ) that also means for a game gun its not great either . a lot of the ammo is corrosive an the last thng Id want if i was in a life an dearth situation is a gunthat need cleaning every time i sot a shot out of it . from what I see other cheap steel cased ammo by wolf brown bear an others is still not that much more than there 5.45 stuff . I dont want a $500 bolt action that is going to be junk if the barrel is full of rust an pits . If I can afford the gun at that price i better be able ot buy some good ammo also .

if guys want a 5,45 then admitt why you want it . because its cheap to make it go bang . just like guys buy mosin nagants an 7.62x54r . At least ithet the 54 r there is good ammo an its better for hunting or some real world use .

now if I had a 5000 round sof 5.45 here Id maybe have one just because but Id not make up reasons why its better than others stuff if its not .

I can relaod 223 easir an cheap I cant even buy brass an bullets are slim an none for the 5.45 .

I dont need a 7.62x39 bolt action I have a dozen semi autos that shoot around 1" I would never hunt with it when I have three 308s, an everything else . wuld I like one? sure I have good loads an its relaodabel etc but it woiuld never be my pick for a survival gun .

i know guys who hunt with 44 lever actions , 357 lever actions , x39,s an all kinds of odd ball stuff an they all work good at short range an poorly at long range my choices all work better at close range an also are good for longer range . If a guy wants to hunt with a 44 mag fine . it dosent impress me . if its his only gun I understand . why he bougth it as his only gun makes no sence . your going to prov enothing to me by killing a deer with a 357 lever action.

I have know deer can be killed with a 223 an I have even done it . I would have been more responsiable using one of my other guns .

fac tis most 5,45 ammo is illeagel for huntiong in most states. its not very accurte , an much of it is corrosive , if you can afford a $500 bolt action the cheapness of the ammo goes out the window. i can gt a used 30-06 for $200 an buy $300 dollars extra reloadable ammo an be better off .

THERE IS A REASON I HAVE BUILT NONE OF MY 5.45 AK KITS YET . IM STILL BUILDING STUFF BETTER SUITED TO MY NEEDS AN ACTUAL USE . iF A GUY WANTS ONE BUY IT AN ENJOY IT.
 
#21 ·
I get a laugh when some of these city folks come up from jersey and bring a 300 Win Mag for deer too,,,,gimmie a break!!,, Just a bit of overkill wouldn't ya say?
HONESTLY IF I HAD TO BE STUCK FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE WITH ONLY ONE RIFLE FOR HUNTIGN DEER AN OTHER BIG GAME i WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A 7MM OR 300 MAG LIKLEY THE 300 MAG .

i CAN DOWN LOAD A 300 MAG TO UNDER 308 LEVELS FOR SMALLER GAME i CANT LOAD MY 30-06 UP . THERE ARE REDUCED RECOIL LOADS FOR THE 300 MAG THAT WILL BE LESS DAMAGING ON MEAT . i HAVE UNTED BLACK TAIL , MULE DEER, WHITE TAIL , ELK , ANTALOPE , MOOSE , BEAR , AN PIGS , THE 300 MAG WOULD HAVE WORKED FINE ON ALL OF THEM AN BETTER ON THE ELK MOSE AN BEAR THAN MY 30-06 OR 308 AN NOT GIVEN P ANY THING IF LOADED DOWN . THE GUN WOULD BE A LITTLE HEAVIER MAYBE AN AMMO WOULD COST MORE BUT LIKEY HAV ENOT SHOT 500 ROUNDS IN MY O6 IN 39 YEARS OF HUNTING . SO COST IS REALLY NOT A FACTOR .

WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT A 36" WIDE BUCK IN COLORADO AT OVER 500 YARDS WHEN I WAS 15 I REALLY WISHED i HAD A 300 MAG THAT TRIP OR BETTER YET A 264 OR 7MM MAG .

YEA A 300 MAG MIGTH BE OVER KILL BUT iF i HAD TO HAVE ONLY ONE BIG GAME RIFLE iD RATHER BE OVER GUNED LOL . I HAVE HAD TO CASE AN TRACK TO MANY DEER HIT BY GUYS WITH 30-30,S 243, M1 CARBINES POOLRY PLACED ARROWS FROM TO FAR TO KOW THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TO DEAD.

i WAS ALLOWED THREE RIFLES IN CETNER FIRE IT WOULD BE A 223 , A 308 AN 300 OR 7 MAG . AN THAT MIGHT CHANGE DEPENDING ON WERE i LIVE .

I COULD GET BY WITH A 22LR , A 30-06 AN 20 GUAGE SHOT GUN IF I HAD TO AN I DID FOR THE FIRST 15 YEARS i HUNTED THATS ALL I HAD . ISURE WOULD HAVE NEVER SWAPED OUT A 5,45 OR X39 FOR ANY OF THOSE
 
#23 ·
I will most likely add a .308 or a .30-06 at some point to my toys at some point, but right now I have the bolt action 7.62x39 and as long as I sty within 100 yards I believe I will do just fine. In fact my guess is I won't even shoot that far.
 
#24 ·
Know your limits. Took three does last year. One @225yds head shot DPMS 24" 308, one@35yds head shot 50AE Desert Eagle and one @90yds in the front shoulder with a 50cal inline muzzle loader. Taken several deer with my single set trigger CZ527 223 usually no more than 120yds with head/ neck shots.If it's legal and the weapon is right know your limits. BTW 223 is legal in Texas and our lease is MLD (We are allowed by the state in my county to take does with firearms because of head count). I don't like the taste of antlers.lol. Bow season starts the 28th. Gettin stoked here, sold the old xbow and upgraded to more KE! Been practicing and gotta kill something beside the stinky hogs.
 
#25 ·
BTW 223 is legal in Texas and our lease is MLD (We are allowed by the state in my county to take does with firearms because of head count). I don't like the taste of antlers.l
hell we had to shoot a doe here to get a buck tag. ( WI)

it was a adjustment to have to shoot a doe being I grew up hunting black tail an mule deer .

I hear there is a lot of guys using 2-250's necked down 243 an 6mm to 22 to hunt in thexas . the 223 texas trophy round an the 22 cheetah are a couple I know of both barrel burners .

I agree you have to know your limits . I dont like limits LOL

30-06 kills them dead at 30 yards an at 400 LOL never had a need for a smaller deer gun . that said i have bunch of lesser capiabilitys :brows: an shor deer with them .

id have no issue with a 7.62x39 bolt action an my loads at 200 yards on deer but there loaded to about 65,000 PSI an about equil to a 300 savage . But since I have a 300 savage id use it loaded hot in the bolt action but I also have a 308 win so skip the 300 savage ut wait ther is a 30-06 here also an it better yet so thats what I use.

I skipped all the other stuff when I was 12 an bought a 30-06 with lawn mowing money an make no apologies for it . To my buddies who bought 30-30's because there dad had one an then tried to shoot to far . to bad .

I grew up with almost every thing moving by the time you got a gun on it so head an neck shots were few . I saw a tree stand for the first 30 years I hunted .

Id think that 500 S&W you built would anchor any thing close LOL
 
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