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OK,,another 922r discussion

2K views 15 replies 8 participants last post by  twa2471 
#1 ·
Here's something I don't know that some of you may know the answer to.

Situation,,,,

Say,,,I wish to build say,,another AMD65 on a FEG receiver or other AK platform >50 years old and still use ONLY the parts contained in the kits and an original factory non FA receiver that are 50 years old or better. Would that fall under the purview of C&R licensing? Or any other platform over 50 years old built with all original parts for that matter. This could even apply to a 98 Mauser also, by the way the law is stated, or so it seems. It seems there is many platforms > 50 years old that may fall into this catigory,,pick which ever one you wish.

I can't decipher the way the laws are written many times, and don't want to spend 100 bucks for a lawyer to explain all the "legal ease" BS to me,,,,

Would I be required to have a 07 license for that or would a 03 C&R which covers guns over 50 years old be OK. As the AMD will in fact be >50 this coming year so will that apply??? Or do you need to stick strictly to the C&R list with no exceptions?

Especially important sense ,,we all know,,,the AK platforms are ,,SOOOOO,,, inherently evil by there very existence and very likely to jump up on there own and slaughter mass quantities of people all by themselves? :sick::grumble:

YES I"M BEING SARCASTIC! But a valid question none the less.
 
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#2 ·
The way I read 922r is it pertains to modifying foreign firearms. You can get a Chinese SKS and as long as it stays original 922r does not apply. Put that SKS action in a different American stock and 922r applies fully. If you start with a foreign receiver and build to the standard format then all foreign parts should be fine. So it is either stock foreign as imported or 922r compliant.
 
#5 ·
I bought a Chinese SKS from a pawn shop that was mounted in a plastic choate sidefolder that was pinned and glued per the Billie Klinton assault ban. I replaced that stock with a TapcoINTRAFUSE® SKS Stock System. This system gives you a 6 position adjustable T6™ stock, so it ...
 
#4 ·
Well all that being what it is

addressing specifically SKS's now, how many have you guys seen in gun shops, Cabellas, gun broker, on armslist and many other places for sale or being used in the field that are actually compliant by the letter of the law? Almost None,,,,

I've literally seen that thousands of times myself,, Change out a rubber butt plate to adjust LOP,,your a felon, pull a bayonet to comply with state laws with no other mods,,your a felon, put a ATI kinda stock on for hunting,,your a felon. WTF????

Seriously how many of you guys out there have seen that before,, I certainly have, everywhere. I've literally seen it hundreds or possibly thousands of times being in use over the years while out hunting or in shops, and have even had my license checked by wardens, and other LEO's while using a SKS with only a sporter stock and no bayo. Hell you follow some state laws to stay legal,,it automatically,, by the letter of the law,,, makes you a felon federally by following the state laws that may apply in your state, and visa versa in some cases,,I'm so confused.

One thing I'm certain of one thing we can all agree on , this 922r compliance is a mess, you conform to one law, your breaking another no matter what. But not once have I ever seen a warden, gun shop owner,LEO or ,major sporting good distributor question a SKS with a sporter stock on it, or a bayo pulled off,, for one second, I see them everyplace I go. Don't You?
 
#7 ·
922(r) simply states that it is illegal to assemble a gun that would be banned from import if you use foreign made parts. The implementing regs further specify no more than 10 imported parts from a list of 20.

What this means is, if YOU assemble a gun from 11 or more imported parts on the list, AFTER the law was enacted, and the resulting gun is in a configuration banned from import, you have violated 922(r). Doesn't matter how old the parts are, the act of assembly is the crime. Owning a gun that was assembled by someone else, selling, it, anything other than the act of assembly is perfectly legal under 922(r) even if it has more than 10 imported parts.

To convict under 922(r) ATF would have to prove, in court, beyond a reasonable doubt, that YOU assembled it. For a licensed manufacturer, that is easy as they by definition made their product. For anyone else, the only way to prove that would be a confession. Either when asked, or by say documenting a build online with pics and such, including the serial number. OTOH, since most US parts required to be compliant are much less costly than even a few minutes of lawyer time in court, making all your affected guns compliant is a no-brainer.

C&R regs have no bearing on 922(r). Assemble, even if it's C&R compliant, and you run afoul of 922(r).

Replacing parts like buttpads that aren't on the list have no affect on 922(r) unless doing so changes the gun into a banned configuration. For example, bayonet lugs are not a countable part, but installing one may make your rifle a banned model and trigger 922(r).
 
#9 ·
My understanding of the SKS is that as imported it is considered a sporting rifle therefore it does not fall under 922r.

Once you change a major component (stock, magazine, flash hider), it is no longer considered a sporting firearm since it is no longer in its original configuration, therefore it must comply with 922r.

So atleast from MY understanding you are absolutely correct twa. Technically most of the people with aftermarket stocks/tapco mags on their SKS's are violating 922r. And beyond those 2 items, everything else US made for the SKS is either super pricey or custom.
 
#10 ·
Changing an SKS to detachable/high cap mags kicks 922r into effect because is now an "assault rifle"


Changing the stock does change the original configuration and the rifle no longer qualifies to be C&R.


don't confuse the two, they are totally different issues.



The only time that losing the C&R status alone kicks 922r into effect is in the case of the Yugo SKS and that is because of the grenade launcher.


The issue there is that the only reason the Yugo is legal in its original configuration is because of the C&R status, if you lose that then it becomes illegal.
 
#11 ·
Lets see if wording it this way makes more sense...

The only SKS that is an "assault rifle" is the Yugo. The fact that it qualifies for C&R makes 922r not applicable.

Once you modify any component of a C&R rifle it voids that status, once the C&R status is lost the 922r automatically kicks in.
 
#12 ·
Would I be required to have a 07 license for that or would a 03 C&R which covers guns over 50 years old be OK. As the AMD will in fact be >50 this coming year so will that apply??? Or do you need to stick strictly to the C&R list with no exceptions?
A gun built from a parts kit is a new firearm. The age of the parts are irrelevant, the original receiver no longer exists. I really doubt you're going to find original non FA AK receivers.
An 07 is a manufacturer. Not necessary if you are building for yourself and not with the intent to sell.
 
#13 ·
Ok I think i get it now,,this shit is confusing as Hell to me sometimes. I do seem to be confusing C&R and 922 statutes quite a bit.

I tried reading the "official' text and all the legal jargon,and, so many "to wit's and there fores" and referring back and forth to so many sub sections of the laws,,it was hard for me to make much sense of it,, my head was spinning after a bit!!! Maybe I'm just trying so hard to do things the right way I'm just confusing myself needlessly. We never had this shit back in the day when I was building regularly. It's all new to me.

So basically in a nut shell,,,if your not building the gun and just modifying it with a stock or some other after market part, it doesn't necessarily kick it into 922 compliance territory, it just effects the C&R status. Except in some cases and depending on what part is used,,ie; removable high cap mags, or building it from scratch/parts, then it needs to meet the 922 compliance statutes otherwise. Correct?

Am I getting closer to being less confused?? I Hope so!!!
 
#15 ·
Think of it this way, 922r applies to "assault rifles" assembled from imported parts...(is a broad statement but I am just trying to illustrate an easy way to understand this...we can split hairs later)

However something can lose the "assault rifle" status if it qualifies for a C&R status...

Is easy to lose the C&R status by a simple mod and fall into the "assault rifle" status though...then 922r kicks in and makes your life even more difficult! :rofl:


non sporting is the proper term...


I am trying to explain a stupid law conceived by idiots here so ...cut me some slack :rofl:
 
#16 ·
:lolup::lolup: Oh so true,,,,perhaps that's why it's all so damn confusing to me,,,

Laws made for a tool,, enacted by a fool that doesn't know how to use that tool or how they even work to start with,,,

all to protect us from the tool they know nothing about,,, or just to protect those that don't use or understand that tool either, effectively making us that do,,,even more confused,,,is that a confusing enough explanation?

See,,,I'm starting to sound just like them now!!!:bleh::lol::lol::lol:

Got it!!

Sounds like typical BS politics to me!!!

It makes no sense what so ever,,,so it must be,,, "good for the children"!!! If you can't make sense,,just confuse and dazzle them with BS that sounds good to someone else that don't know shit about it either, Typical,,,,

DAMN,,,,ALL THIS SHIT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!:geezer:
 
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