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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #111
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here's picture of solid turned 12ga slugs that Rob makes.
    They are flat on one end and hollowpoint on other.
    They can be shot either direction. Aluminum ones
    are 346gr, brass 1080gr........If you need any
    contact him. He, RIP, and others on AR are testing
    them with different powders. I have gotten similiar brass
    ones to 1900 in NEF with RMC case, with
    140 gr the new RL-17. Ed

  2. #112
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Heavy brass slug testing-----
    RIP'S components in first picture-
    15gr Blue Dot starter, thin plastic separator,
    230gr HBMG, thin plastic under slug,
    and 1087gr brass slug; in a RMC 3.5"
    brass case, fired in his great looking,
    braked NEF 12ga FH Ultra, got him
    1812 fps average. Barrel and brake
    are 27" total length. Great work. Ed




  3. #113
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    One of our testers, Bret in MN, got the BPI Sabot with
    500gr Hornady .500 slug up to the good speed listed
    on BPI"s loading sheet, using shotgun powders. I could
    get them there with my loads using much larger amounts
    of rifle powders. He tested 3.5" Federal plastic cases in
    his Savage 210 with 3.5" chamber and the 28" heavy barrel
    he put on. With 50gr of Longshot(max load for all modern
    guns) he got 2550 fps, with 500gr in sabot. He use two
    BPGS gas seals fitted together over the powder, then
    a FS12 Flexseal wad, then a 1/4" cork wad, then the sabot.

    Then a good strong roll crimp with drill/drillpress crimper.
    This load is at mag shotgun pressures by case expansion
    measurements and BPI's 46gr load tested at 12,500 psi.
    He also did one with one BPGS and two Flexseals and had
    200 fps less.He had tried other combinations seals/wads
    and with same amount of powder and got lower yet.
    He also went up with the powder, with seal/wads that worked
    the best and got about 3000 fps, but the plastic cases
    stuck and wouldn't eject easy. I will be testing same
    seal and wad column in a few days, in my NEF with long
    barrel to compare results.I thank Bret, he is a real
    good experimenter and idea man. Everybody is trying
    like crazy to get that 500gr saboted slug up to big
    game gun velocities with shotgun powder and thanks to
    BPI"s supply of the right components it has happened.Ed

  4. #114
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Hey Ed! I got one! Let the games begin! The only thing I want to do for starters is get a 1000 grain slug like in your pic...



    And yes, I know this is a 600 grain slug, but this is the cartridge type I'm looking for - all brass (converted .50 BMG) and a slug crimped on the end. Time to re-read all the info now! Here's mine alongside my limited-edition series 10/22:



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  5. #115
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    Ed, I have three questions after reading the thread again:


    First, do you know the status of Rob's stamped rims for the converted .50 BMG brass? I'd like to purchase some!






    Second, I am interested in what I can load the NEF with when using long brass 3.85" case, with large primers? Like the one in this pic:



    This is from Page 6 where you state this is RG's Jacketed 715 gr slug. I have some swaging equipment and can press my own jacketed slugs! What kind of load would you recommend for a 1000 gr slug / 3.85" full brass / large primer?





    Lastly, when you say "large" primers, are you talking about SHOTGUN primers, Large RIFLE primers, or BMG primers?




    Thanks!
    - Jerry
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  6. #116
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Jerry- Nice looking NEF you have there.When I say large primers
    I mean BMG primers. Rob can make rims or completed cases
    and is selling them now. Rims aren't cheap, I think they are
    about 5 dollars..Contact him at email given above.
    Loads -With long case, bmg primers, you can use 240 grains
    of slow HBMG powder.Start at 240 and if it extracts ok, work up.
    Always fill up spage with seal and wads.Cushion wad is good.
    Here is a Rob project that will make you drool.
    Rob on AR is building a 12GA FH double on a Zabala Double
    10 gauge frame. It has the Greener crossbolt. He cut off
    barrels to make a 4" long monoblock double to screw a
    pair of heavy 12ga rifled Pacnor barrels into. He reamed out
    monoblock section and threaded it. His barrels are
    1.116" at the breach, .97" at muzzle and 22" total length.
    Barrels threaded into monoblock with a 15/16" x 32 thread.
    In the pics it is partly done and he will put in the ribs
    and integral sight rib and regulate for accuracy.
    It will be about 14.5 lbs when done he says.Ed




  7. #117
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Some more BPI seal and sabot testing.
    First of all both Bret and I have heavy tight fit barrels
    and his barrel on the Savage is faster twist so it took
    him 50 gr of Longshot to get what BPI got with
    looser barrels and slow twist at 46 gr of Longshot.
    For non heavy barreled guns only go to 46 gr.
    I did a bunch of tests in my NEF long barrel with long
    chamber. My store didn't have any 500gr .500" XTP slugs
    so I used some 420gr .512" dia lead Great plains in the
    BPI sabot. Using 2 BPGS powder seals, a BPI Flexseal, a
    cork wad in 3.5" new Federal cases, roll crimped, I got
    2800 fps with 420gr slug. I tried 4 other powder seals,
    2 cards, a Remington, a Win, and a odd one, all with the
    Flexseal and lost velocity. I fixed up my crimper so it would
    roll the plastic down and over inside edge of sabot, as before
    it would turn plastiC in too sharp and get some of the crimp
    outside the sabot top. If sabot was too low so that the plastic
    crimp went clear down to the slug I got high pressure signs.
    I also did same loads in used 3.5" REM cases ok.
    Now, I thought I should have more velocity, so I swaged the
    .512" 420GR slug down to .500" like they say the sabot is for,
    AND I GOT OVER A 120 FPS MORE. Everytime. I also used
    Alliant Steel powder and got all the same results, using
    60gr. It is easier on cases. I also substituted the doubled up
    BPGS powder seals and the Flexseal with 520gr Lyman in
    place of the seal and cushion on the WW12 wadcup the Lyman
    fits in, with some RL-17 loads, of 150gr, and got over 200fps more
    that the original WW12 wadcup gave with the Lyman.

    Velocity secret is to have the perfect sealing setup with
    slug/sabot combo that is NOT too tight. Only tight enough
    to get accuracy. The cork seems to protect the sabot
    base ok on the shotgun powder loads, and not needed
    on the RL-17 loads, which is a easier accelerating powder
    and without cork helps make room for the RE-17. I think I
    will get increases in the brass RMC cases, with RE-17, with
    the BPGS doubled and a Flexseal in place of cards and wads.
    We will know soon.Ed

  8. #118
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    OK where do I get reasonably priced 50 BMG brass? I am obviously a huge DIY kind of guy and the only brass I can find online is in lots of 50 or more! I think perhaps 12-20 rounds is all I'd need for a fun range day! Wondering if you guys get your brass new or once-fired?
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  9. #119
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    You probably wil lhave to get 50. We try to get unfired
    with bullets pulled out. Some shops sell new.Did you get
    set up to put rims on cases....If you get used
    do a good job annealing.
    Here is picture of the breach of 8ga FH NEF with
    case in it, to show that the gun is strong enough
    for 8ga. I was a 10ga NEF. Has 29" effective barrel
    length, and the internal expansion step at muzzle
    for the ports that stops muzzle climb and reduces
    recoil. Which along with thick pad and thumbhole
    stock makes for easy shooting.Ed


  10. #120
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of a 12ga size drawn brass case that was
    made back in the 80s. Case is for the CAWS weapon system.
    Case is belted, and it and the gun operated at 25,000 psi.
    Its bore size is between 12 and 10 ga size, but the od of
    the drawn case would let it start in 12ga chambers, so
    they added belt so it couldn't go all the way in
    to regular shotguns. Notice the thick sides and corner
    near the base.Heavy enough for 25,000 psi. They loaded
    it with big buckshot and tested other projectiles also.
    They had a plastic card over shot and filler and rolled
    over brass mouth for crimp. Ed


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