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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #241
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    A fella cast me some 10 and 8ga hard alloy lead slugs.
    10 ga 1050 gr, 8ga 1320gr, fullbore, have large concave
    in the base. Should need little more hollow in the base
    for longer range accuracy. Just hard alloy, not heat
    treated. Nice design, one wide groove, for lube if needed.
    Fired one in NEF 8ga below, with heavy 3.3" plastic kiln case,
    1700 fps, 9000 ft lbs energy. Entered backstop straight
    at 40 ft.Have pics of the new slugs soon.
    The new blue BPI 12ga sabots are out now.Ed


  2. #242
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Comparison of slug type and speed for accuracy.
    Comparing better 12ga slugs for rifled and smooth.

    The US-S 570gr slug, with
    locked on base does 2-3" groups at 50 yds
    and about 9" at 100yds in heavy barrel.
    At 2000 fps in smooth bore.

    Now a Dixie 600gr slug in rifled barrel at 1300,
    2-3" at 50yds- about 9" at 100yds;
    BUT Dixie at 2000 2-3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds.
    It seems that slower slugs in rifled barrels losing velocity
    gets below the speed of sound at 100 yds which
    affects accuracy. Of course super heavy bullets, like
    12-1500gr, make it harder to start out fast
    enough to be supsonic at longer ranges.


    This accounts for the guys info I posted earlier about his
    high speed in rifled 20ga killing deer at 160 yds.
    And holding tighter groups at longer ranges.
    He kept velocity above the speed of sound......Ed

  3. #243
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    About slugs going from supersonic to subsonic.I understand
    it is that blunt bullets that are in most shotgun slug/sabot loads,
    do not maintain best accuracy when passing back under the speed
    of sound like spire point bullets do.Speed of sound about 1150 fps.

    Now on, FED 239 primer in 8bore and the 4bore cases I have
    with shotgun primers. They almost as strong, from my primer tests
    as the kiln primers from WIN and REM.And they seem to dent easier
    in my 8ga testing than FED209 or the REM kiln ones. I get them from
    the 3.5" 10 and 12ga Fed primed magnum cases. Makes ignition surer.

    Lotta guys want to try Magtech 2.5" 12ga cases. Well they are
    stronger built than any of the old time brass cases I have seen.
    About dollar each, go in same chamber as plastic, same strength.
    The rifle looking cartridge in a slug gun is what some like..
    If you have break action load them with protruding slugs any length.
    If auto or pump in 3.5" chamber load them up to 3.1" overall
    with protruding slug and you can feed from magazine.
    RCBS has sizing dies. Loaded that length about the same power
    as a 3.5" plastic case roll crimped on same slug, magnum load.
    Don't leave air space in Magtech, but use wads and seals
    like in plastic cases..Ed

  4. #244
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    I found some 4bore plastic cases, 4 inches long, red
    colored, looking like an oversize 12ga Activ case, They are all
    plastic without a steel insert in the base like Activ cases
    have. No markings. I understand they are Fiocchi.
    They are the size for the 4bores that are about
    .950 inch bore. They are suitable for shot loads of moderate
    pressures. Guys loading them say they stretch out after
    a few loads. And they use about 3 oz shot.
    I will test them with a light buckshot loads
    of nine 45cal buckshot, 140 grains each.
    Total 1260gr, a little less than three ounces.
    In picture are plastic cases with brass ones and 3.3" 8ga.
    The base of case will be shimmed with strong wide tape to
    fit our chamber, cutting down on the stretching.Ed


  5. #245
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    When I made the 16ga FH, shown earlier in this thread,
    I had couple bmg cases that were partly worked down, and not
    yet expanded to 16ga mouth size. With a rim on it bigger than the
    base which was .770". Well, I've had guys ask if I would ever
    have bottlenecked cartridge. This led me to a way to do one.
    I made rim .770, left shoulder diameter, swage case sides straight,
    and expanded neck for 585" size. Cut the case to 3.7" length, and
    we have 585 Hubel Super Magnum, HSM. This will be my only
    bottle necked wildcat. I can make the mag box on the MRC PH
    long to feed case..Good for over 16,000 ft lbs, Regular 14,000 ft lbs.
    Will that put trex in small letters.....Pictured with 505 Gibbs to which
    it has nearly identical larger shape and good side taper for easy
    extraction, with heavy loads.And I can make cases like I do with
    my 700HE.Case hold 250gr ball powder under bullet.
    It'll work in FBW Model L..ED


  6. #246
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Shot 4 ga plastic case with 7- 140 gr balls, 980gr total
    1800 fps. Used duplex load- Blue Dot 100gr, - Re17 150gr.
    A card and couple nitro wads under load and card over, glue gunned
    the card in. Shot loadedin two rows of 3 and 7th on bottom
    in recess in the middle of top wad. Red plastic case ok some
    expansion. Just about the limit for an all plastic case.

    Here is picture 0f 585HSM and some other cases.
    Gonna test a few in trusty ole Enfield I shot
    the 700H 3.25 in with extra rear lugs. Change barrel
    lengthen port.It won't do maximum real hotrod
    loads like when I put it in PH later, but it'll
    outrun trex.2nd pic... ED




  7. #247
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    In the 4ga plastic case a 760 gr ball at 2000 fps
    extracted ok. 3oz #2 shot load at 1500 ok.
    More 8ga stuff, fired a 2 ball, 820gr load at 1600
    with all the RE17 it had room for. We fired 1300
    gr cast full bore 8ga hard slug at 1700. Found a
    guy who can do them. Here is picture of his 10
    and 8ga cast fullbore hard slugs. 2nd picture is the
    585 HSM case sectioned with a competition case
    showing how strong brass is.Ed




  8. #248
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    The 4ga all plastic case good for 4 of my magnum
    pressure loads, with our slower powders,before
    it is expanded to much.
    Compared to the brass cases, at 50% more pressure,
    I've fired one 6 times and sized, and fired it 4 more.ED

  9. #249
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Had to look up info on that 4-bore - 1" slugs! Wow!

    Return of the 4 Bore Part One

    Return of the 4 Bore Part Two

    You know, I know there are 26mm flare launcher shells that you can buy (I have a launcher myself ) I wonder if those could be adapted for use? Would probably need to full-length size them but if the plastic hulls can survive then I'm sure these could be used for another cheap alternative. The problem is that the ones I have used berdan primers, so you would need to swage out the anvil to use with shotgun primers. Some of the launchers use a .38 blank insert to ignite the powder, and I have taken one of those and adapted them for use by drilling out the body and press-fit installing the blank insert.
    Gunco Member #10

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    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

  10. #250
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    That sounds neat. You got any pictures.

    We found some 585 hardcast, sized and lubed bullets.
    Works ok in my 585s at high speed. Shown in picture.

    We showed 10ga slugs above, Another easy to do
    10ga slug load is the 10ga wadcups for lead BPI has,
    with a 69cal swaged lead bullet in it that Dixie sells.
    It is hollowbased and 750gr.You can also cast .69-.70
    lead slugs for wadcup use. Also use the same wadcup
    for buckshot. Some are showing interest in 10ga
    due to NEF making them with heavy bull barrels.
    Another experimenter has got a bunch
    of RMC 3.5" brass 10ga cases, and will load and test
    the fullbore 10ga slugs shown above. RMC can do
    them about any time you want.Ed

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