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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #321
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing about the 16" barrel, somewhere from 24-30" would be like it.
    Very nice build though, I like the design.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  2. #322
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HMMMMM hes getting pretty good speeds with the 16 inch barrel. over 2000 fps with that heav of a slug is going to do some damage. and the trajectory would be close to a ak round as the speeds are clost to the same. the BC is likely higher. Im not saying a longer barrel would not help but that thing is going to do some seruious damgae to what ever it hits.

    Hubel can likely shed some light on what is to be gained by more barrel.

  3. #323
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Longer barrel get noise away, extra 8" gets 200 fps, but
    barrel weight takes up extra recoil, due to beterr front/rear
    balance.And to me gun looks better. A big also is, better
    powders can be used. Those that get to peak pressure slower
    yet more energy under the pressure curve equals more speed,
    but expands brass less. Longer barrel makes this possible.
    might as well have 8" barrel an 8" brake.

    We are always looking for way to shoot 8 and 10s
    using easy to get components,cheap, without buying
    loaded rounds for big bucks, if available at all.

    In 8ga falling block, plastic got 930gr hollowbase
    slug to 2300, It is a slug for 10 ga that we expanded
    base a little to fit tight in 8ga wadcup. On the left in
    picture. At 30 yds 3" group. Just with open sight,
    About like the 10ga sight bead. There is enough hollow in
    the base it flies pretty good from 8ga smooth barrel.

    Along same line, in my 10ga 32" smooth bull barrel with a
    750 gr .69cal hollowbase Dixie MZ slug in VP100
    10ga wadcup about same speed and same accuracy.
    Nice to just get a box of slugs that is in stock,
    and a 2cent cent wadcup and Fed 3.5" 10ga plastic cases
    and be shooting cheap.And the cases roll crimp nice
    down to these slugs.

    And also the hotrod 20 ga 3.5" Hastings factory loads in
    a smooth barrel moderate weight 20ga shoots about
    same accuracy even though they say for rifled, but that
    SPW slug/wad combo has enough plastic and seal on the back
    and to shoot like aBrenekke. The new 28ga Brenekkes
    out of 28ga NEF modified choke barrel shoots same at 30yds.
    Scoped guns and good eyes would shrink groups.Ed


  4. #324
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    A different, interesting style, of 12ga slug, from Russia.
    First picture loaded round, in plastic, roll crimped.
    Second, two types of slugs they have on the same base.
    Base for rifled barrel, little smaller diameter than the front.
    Looks like the roll crimp locks against
    the edge of the base. Neat idea, and it could have a
    flat meplat slug on the front of the base like
    the US-S brass slugs fron Greece are on the
    plastic bases that I have here. They must use a crimping
    die with a deep hollow up in the middle. We have thought
    of taking a roll crimper and putting a deeper recess
    in middle to load longer nose slugs further out so as to
    have more room for our slower powders.ED




  5. #325
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of 4 long cases of
    RIP's on the AR forum.
    Top being a Rocky Mtn Cartridge
    3.5" turned brass 20ga. In 20ga
    getting these and lengthening chambers
    allows use of the 3.5" 20ga plastic also.
    Some factory guns are 3.5"

    Next a RMC 3.5" turned brass 12ga.
    Chambered for these you can use
    3.5" 12ga plastic also.Some guns are
    3.5" from the factory.

    3rd down our 3.85" 12ga FH we made from BMG brass.
    Bottom a RMC 3.85" turned brass 12ga FH case.




    Next picture shows one of the old ways they locked slugs
    into paper cases. Many old slugs had a wide deep groove
    which made it possible to crimp that way.You can
    see one of those slugs in the picture.




    Testing 490gr 12ga full bore Lee style slugs in 3.5"
    plastic at 2200. Works in the long barrel rifled NEF and
    the Khan 12ga 3.5" auto smooth bore.

    In same guns the 570gr US-S brass slug with
    locked on base at 1900 in 3.5" plastic worked also.
    It is great to see a smoothbore slug like the US-S
    that is as accurate as fullbore slugs from
    rifled barrels.Maybe they will be imported soon
    from European Cartridge.Ed

  6. #326
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here are couple more pictures of longer bullets
    in sabots, loaded in plastic cases, with the
    roll crimp down against the sabot. Both are
    ideas tested by European Cartridge in Greece,
    who make the US-S slugs. Both longer bullets
    pictured have the locked on base that their
    other US-S slugs have, for smooth bore accuracy.
    2nd picture shows a deep hollow roll crimper
    for doing slugs like these.Ed




  7. #327
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    This picture of an RC4 brand slug I see is available
    down under. It has locked base like Brenekke.
    And locked on without discarding petals, like US-S.

    And 2nd picture is a group fired with RC4 slugs
    by fellow on NitroExpress forums from
    double 12ga, 2 left and 2 rights at 25yds.
    This shows the posibilities of smoothbores,
    rather than not trying to perfect them.

    3rd picture is a discarding sabot base, and with
    four discarding sabot carriers, with centered
    penetrating solid bullet, from France.Ed








  8. #328
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Some more slug and sabot ideas folks are doing.

    First is a long pointed slug with locked on base,
    It goes to target with base,can work smoothbore.



    Second is picture of Hexolit sabot base slug
    with petals expanded, sure would make bad wound.



    Third shows a variety of Gualandi slugs you can
    get for reloading, and we're finding that these
    locked base slugs, Brenekke/USS style slugs, are
    giving good accuracy in smooth barrels which can
    save when doing heavy barrels.Weights shown in
    grams, get our weights in grains multiply by 15.4..Ed


  9. #329
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here are some more sabot/slug and loading concepts.

    First is Alcan 2.75" paper case with Dixie 600gr slug,
    with the side of the case crimped into the relief/lube
    groove of the Dixie slug.The groove in the Dixie isn't
    quite as deep as the groove in the Fosbury slug shown
    in earlier post, but still seems to crimp fairly tight.



    Next are various slugs in 12ga REM sabots that take
    57 cal slugs and bullets.Those sabots are from the REM
    Accutip loadings. In picture you can see one of the
    REM 385gr jkt bullets they use. Also is sabot
    with 20ga cast Lyman. On right sabot with hardcast 585 cal
    640gr lead bullet, the ones I use in my 585HE wildcat
    case. I sized it down a little, perfect fit.
    Also the .575 cal Dixie Gunworks lead slugs will do.

    Also shown is a long pointed 55 Boys bullet in one,
    fairly tight fit.We cut back .3" of bullet off so it
    fit for length in sabot and is 750gr.



    Third are 3.5" brass and plastic with the REM sabot and
    the 750gr pointed slugs in them.In all the sabot work we
    and others have done, trying to get accuracy and high
    speeds together, maybe there is such a thing as too
    much plastic. IE, sabots too thick on the sides if doing
    50cal or smaller in 12ga sabots, for heavier slugs
    at high speeds. Thinner sides may discard more evenly at
    the greater pressures and violence of high speeds.
    Thin sides may have less give so that sabot grips slug
    better to impart spin in rifled use. Example in
    smoothbore use is the USS slugs, where the brass slug
    is .629" with thin discarding petals that have proven to
    be very accurate. And with both reasonable priced sabot
    offerings the last few years being undersize, accuracy
    problems, etc, maybe time to try something else.

    Got to find whole bunch of these sabots. Are these pictured
    12ga REMs the only 58cal ones around? I can't find others,
    and maybe we can find where these are made. As I have
    huge numbers of the 585 slugs, which by the way I think
    is best hunting combination, without extremely heavy slugs
    which suffer for the speeds needed for longer range use.
    It is hard lead, good for big game.And my guy can make many,
    many more if needed whether for 585HE rifles
    or in sabots if we can find some.ED


  10. #330
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Some more sabot and slug ideas, discarding types
    and locked on base types.

    First picture of 20ga Buckhamer pulled apart. The bunch
    I have were pulled apart, the slug won't lock back in
    tight, into the base.



    Second is various 20ga sabot/slug ideas some using
    buckhammer sabot bases that a bunch of 458 cal lead
    slugs and jackted slugs I have, lock into real tight.
    The 458 lead ones are 400gr, jkt are 350gr.

    And I got some empty SPW 20 gauge sabots, and 20ga
    Buckhammer slugs lock into them real tight.I have
    many of these slugs. These slugs are 440gr.

    Also is 3" 20ga FED factory sabot shell and one of
    discarding sabots out of the case. Also a 3.5" 20ga
    Hastings 3.5" load with black locked on base sabot,
    and sabots out of the case and couple 20 brass
    3.5" RMC cases.



    Next is variety of 12ga sabots with 50cal slugs
    in them.2 white and the pink sabot are FED, The black
    is Hornady, With a 50cal long bullet .
    The grey, is a BPI with .504" cast 440gr slug.
    I wish the BPI was full size like the others
    and fit rifled barrels tight for accuracy.........



    Last 12ga SPWs from Slug-R-US(30 cents ea) with various
    50 cal slugs locked in tight, and shown with one out of
    a factory load, the dark colored one. 50cal 385gr
    Great Plains ML slugs lock in perfect for a lighter
    loading. Other ML slugs will do and a few of
    the Dixie Gunworks 50cal slugs lock in also...Ed



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