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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #341
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Some 12ga sabot progress. Here is pic of our sabot model, two
    in front, shown with Accutip sabot behind. They are all holding
    58cal slugs, showing how tight they fit and conform
    to the inside of the sabot petals. A decent fit is a help
    for better accuracy. Hope they get built for us this summer.
    We are working on it.




    Second picture is from a fellow who put 58cal cast slugs in a
    thinwall 20ga shotcup and shot this at 50 yds. This with first
    load he tried. Great accuracy for so many shots. This shows
    great possibilities with 58cal slugs, and should even do better
    in the 12ga sabot like the above we like. I've heard about BP
    guys who got into 58cal that they get good accuracy.




    Here is picture of some the grey bls sabots showing the way
    they have got bent and beat up, and shows what I and many
    others have found; that plastic cushions can bend and twist
    and shift, affecting the slug on leaving the barrel, affecting
    the accuracy.




    On a future work, I'm doing a Greener Martini in my 585HE long
    case, Here is picture of a parts action with a stock idea
    I'm experimenting with. Might use this or regular pistol grip.


  2. #342
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Back after losing time to a lightning fried computer.

    Test in 3.5" plastic using a few accutip 12ga sabots out of factory loads.
    The 12ga accutip sabot, hard cast 440gr 58cal minie slug in
    36" rifled NEF at 2200, and it went through 12 inches of wood like
    butter. The hole out showed it was starting to expand a little.

    Test of softer lead 500gr 58cal Minie with deeper hollowbase in accutip
    in smooth cylinder bore barrel at 2000, and 3 shots in 3" at 30 yds.
    This was a Lyman 575213 new style minie slug
    More experimenting can make these work fair in smooth barrels.
    For best accuracy use a blunt nose heavier 58cal 600gr slug with
    deepest hollow in the base. The blunt nose would be more front end
    heavy and a little more accurate from smooth bore..
    Lee and Lyman have molds like that.Others selling slugs also.

    I mentioned before about seals/wads must be stable and not crush
    down off center, or it might affect accuracy. Here is picture of
    the one piece seal and wad Federal uses in their sabot loads.
    Notice it doesn't have a lot of space in the cushion part that would
    allow it to tip or go off center.



    Here is picture of some 10ga work using expanded 69cal minie and
    700cal bullets in 10ga wadcup. 69cal hollowbase fairly accurate to
    50yds in heavy barrel smoothbore.



    Here is picture of the Savage 110 done in my 585HE. Hollow butt of the
    stock is weighted, gun handles nice.Ed


  3. #343
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    With an other scoped NEF Ultra 12ga, 24 inch
    barrel, shot hard cast, 400 gr 58cal Lyman Minie
    in Accutip sabot at 75 yds. Hit small paper plate
    5 for 5. Going 2000fps.

    Speaking of 585HE above. We have two in falling blocks,
    10 bolt guns,5 break actions, and other types.
    A fun cartridge, and now that we are working with
    58cal slugs in 12ga sabots, 58 cal is where it is at..
    And now we are getting a run of 585HE cases made.
    Bertram getting ready to make the last die;
    done later this month and will be doing cases then.
    Cases are 3 bucks each, bulk shipping included.
    He usually charges 5 or more for wildcats, but as
    I'm furnishing final sizing die, and he will ship
    by bulk freight saving him handling, and he had
    a couple tools already to use, he said $3 each, a
    real good deal..
    He will ship whole bulk order to me.
    I will pass them on to everyone buying in first run.
    I'll will get a bunch also, to load for others,
    to fill orders, and collectors. Get 50 for 150 bucks,get
    100 for 300 bucks, 167 cases for 500 bucks.
    I'm having guys just make out MO to Bertram Bullets
    and get it to me and I send them on to him.
    I'll keep track of who gets what and ship cases to
    the guys helping with first run, no shipping charge.
    Want to make the run as big as possible. Got
    money ready to go for over 700.
    Like to get 3-4 times as many made if possible.Ed

  4. #344
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Sorry, late in posting, bad weather, computer lines zapped again.

    Some more experimenting with the Accutip sabots, Designed a
    two ball load using .577" cast lead balls. Bottom ball flattened a
    little in vise with the flats up and down in sabot.
    Used a fold crimp, 3.5" once fired REM case in NEF, long rifled
    barrel.....Fold crimp goes down on the top ball...Round
    balls 285gr each, going about 190 hit within 2 inches at 30 yds.

    Those 58 cal inside Accutip sabots are really versatile.
    Tested 3 shots with 58cal Buffalo hollowpoint, hollowbase, lead,
    muzzleloading slugs, 2" at 30yds. All loads with plastic x12x
    seal and white felt cushion under sabot.

    Experimenting with an Enfield, had one set up with my 700HE 3.25,
    and just did one in my longer 700HE. Did little longer port and
    added little more weight.First picture. 2nd picture is a neat 3 barrel
    16ga, which if I had it,deepen chamber, I'd have a neat 16ga FH....Ed





    PS---We are gaining on getting the big run of brass made for our 585HE.
    He is finishing the tooling and soon be producing. We want make the run
    as big as possible so everyone is welcome to help. You in US get in on
    first order, cases are $3 each.Those in the US he'll send whole order to
    me bulk freight, a big savings, and I'll get them to the parties involved,
    no charge for helping out on first run.The $3 cost is a great bargain
    compared to other big bore cases and if you buy 150 or so you've saved
    enough, over the cost of others to buy a barrel to make 585HE gun with.
    My contact--- gunowner at journey.com

    For those in Australia,Canada,South Africa,UK, and other countries
    send pmt to Bertram and he'll send cases to you individually when done.
    Right now can't afford export costs to send cases back out of US...


    .

  5. #345
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of the two ball sabot load, using two
    58cal balls in a 12ga Accutip style sabot.



    Hoping we will have sabot like above for reloading soon,
    in volumn so we can load and test a bunch of these 58cal
    bullets and slugs. There are soft cast, hard cast, and
    the heavier jacketed. These all work in my 585HE also.
    The 440gr hollowbase ones loose in the big box on left
    measure in at .585" and work great in my 585HE cases.



    Part of my 585HEs are smooth barrels guns
    just for testing the different style guns, and different loads.
    In the one smooth barreled one I have on BBK action, shooting
    my 585HE with 440 gr hollowbased Minie slug, we were hitting
    8 inch paper plate with them going about 2700 at 30yds.
    Hollowbased they act like shotgun slug at short ranges.

    Will be neat deal to shoot them in 12ga accutip style sabots in
    rifled 12 gauges and the smoothbore 585HEs with $30 barrels.
    Here is picture of Pedretti(Beretta style) that came as 10ga. I
    have monoblocked in 585 barrel. In picture there is 585HE case
    partly out of chamber. I have extra fairly heavy 10ga barrel
    also and changes in 2 minutes. And that monoblock break
    action locks up like a bank vault.Real strong.





    And an ultimate big bore from history.ED


  6. #346
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HUBEL458 i SEE YOU ARE ON BENCH REST CENTRAL. IS THERE SOME TRICK TO BEING ABLE TO POST AN REPLY ON THAT SITE??? I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET REGISTERED THERE AN BE ABLE TO ASK A SIMPLE QUESTION OR TWO BUT AFTER A MONTH OF TRYING TO BE RGISTERED AN FINALY GETTING THAT DONE I CAN NOT POST ANYTHING. THERE CONTACT BUTTTION WONT WORK AN EMAILS TO THE ADMINISTRATER GO UNANSWERED. ANY THOUGHTS OR HELP WOULD BE GREAT. ID LIKE TO BUILD A 6MM BEGGS BUT I CANT GET GENE BEGGS CONTACT NUMBER OR ASK ANY QUESTIONS.

    THANKS

  7. #347
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    I don't know what to tell you to do
    I just go to my 12ga FH thread with no problems.

    We hope a company will be making our modeled 12ga sabots
    soon, this fall, to deliver to reloaders and suppliers..
    We also got first part of funds collected for the initial big run
    for our 585HE long cases being made. Sending in bunch
    this week, and need more to make run bigger For more info
    if your interested contact me.
    We, others, and 'VdoMemorie' on the Cast Bullet forums
    and Shotgun World are experimenting with 58cal Minie slugs and
    58cal round balls in 20ga wadcups, and find it is away to slug
    load your 20ga economically. You can use 20ga Commander wad and
    also shorter "sporting 20 short" wad from BPI. I cut bottom off of
    commander and use felt wads and 20ga obturator seal with .575"
    470gr minie slug and got 4" group at 30 yds, with smooth barrel.
    That is with heavy thick,smooth barrel I put in CBC below.
    Here is picture of the CBC break action that I mono-blocked in smooth
    super heavy, thick 20ga barrel..30" long, chambered for 3.5" cases.
    Works great with 3.5" plastic or brass cases.

    Here is picture of the 1887 WIn with my 585HE in it. I put in a
    heavy barrel and different kind of extractor Barrel is 28"..
    I like putting my 585HE in all the old style of guns, just
    to show all the uses the case has.

    I found supply of super long bmg cases to make my 700HE Long cases.
    It is 4.27" long and holds over 370 gr ball powder, 1000gr at 3400 plus.
    I have it in my Vulcan BMG bolt action and I just got one done in
    a MRC PH bolt gun, in picture below...Ed
     

     
     

  8. #348
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    I found pics of a factory 12ga over under that
    has bottom barrel rifled, top one smooth with
    chokes. Will have pics few days. Don't how
    heavy the rifled barrel is yet.Also will have pics of
    585HE case samples from the first run
    of my 585HE cases, Bertram is doing.ED

  9. #349
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is breach picture of that 12ga O/U made by Armi-Lumar
    It has the bottom barrel rifled right from factory, top barrel smooth,
    with interchangeble chokes. A real neat gun.



    Good news, I got few samples of first production run of my 585HE
    cases from Bertram, to test for strength and measure for uniformity.
    They all measure perfect and especially the belt length headspace.
    He made part of the run, a 1000, without headstamp..And over 3000
    with headstamp. Cases only 3 bucks each if you get in on the first
    shipment right away..Ship by mail to US cost too much, $1.50 each,
    so we will have a bulk freight shipment to US as big as possible.
    Folks in other countries order direct from Bertram.

    This case can be used in different style guns.,
    Bolt, Falling blocks, Break actions, Etc. I have reamers, and dies.
    Manson Reamer can make more reamers,CH4D has dies also.
    Earlier in thread I've shown various 585HE guns we have set up. Here
    is a break action, with 585 barrel monoblocked in, one my favorites,
    we just got done.




    I tested 585HE moderate loads(650gr @ 2400) in NEF, CBC, Pedretti,
    etc, break actions and didn't need sizing on the bottom 2/3. Real
    tough built cases. Cases, are real uniform. For high test loads we
    fired couple with 650gr at 3000 in Enfield bolt action, and it extracted
    ok, and resized ok back to specs. About a 62k psi load. Pockets tight.

    First picture, shown is some he made without headstamp that I stamped,
    and some with stamp and ones I made on the right..
    Also they can be used for wildcats, shorter cases, etc, and folks can stamp
    what they want. 2nd picture you see them in a regular # 31 shellholder,
    they don't need a special holder.

    In 3rd picture of sectioned cases, you can see how strong the cases are
    in base and corners, strong like the ones I made, on the left in picture,
    which were real strong cases, that worked great with max loads..
    The new 585 from Bertram on the right in picture.Nice strong base/corners.
    He supplies same base cases for 408 Cheytac, used with hot sniper loads
    that run real high average pressures..He will be manufacturing
    these Cheytac runs regular, so we can get ours made anytime
    we get money built up for an order..Ed








  10. #350
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Good looking stuff there Mr. Hubel! A few questions as I've been out of the loop for a while -

    1. How are the sabots working out? After reading up on BPI sabots it seems there isn't a "good" sabot out there for us reloaders that is affordable?

    2. 12GFH reamers - is there one available for renting? Who would I need to contact nowadays?
    Gunco Member #10

    http://pookieweb.net


    The "original" Boltcutter Rivet Squeezers:
    http://pookieweb.net/AK/rivet/boltcutters/boltcutter.htm


    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

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