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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #361
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Some more info about our sabots and various slug weights......
    First and most important is our sabots fitting real tight like the Accutip
    Sabots, they will not get the same speed at the same pressures as
    the undersize grey and blue ones, But they do leave the barrel
    headed straighter and without damage, even with hollowbase 58cal
    slugs in them as the pics above show. No cards under slugs in sabots.,
    But with good powder seals, using Alliant Steel, and good 1/4" minimum
    cushion wads.

    The 440gr Minie slug of .575" in the 3" cases is the one I used as a
    base loading, to work each way by weight to find what loads of
    Alliant Steel work and extract in my NEF. Using 3" soft base cases.
    Here is pic of before/after of Fiocchi cases, on right unfired and left
    fired, 55gr Steel with 440 gr slug.



    For 440gr max of 55gr Steel
    For 400gr max of 57gr Steel
    For 360gr max of 59gr Steel

    For 490gr max of 52gr Steel.
    For 510gr max of 49gr Steel
    For 540gr max of 47gr Steel.

    I tested all these weights for extraction. It is real nice to reach into a
    bucket, grap a sabot that fits right, and go to loading and shooting.
    Many of you need to get in on the fun.
    Here is picture of Fiocchi with sabot, roll crimped. The top of sabot is
    perfect for roll crimping...It is setting under crimp tool in drill press.



    Earler I showed the 585HE Falling block with pistol grip and the light
    barrel. Here it is with Knoxx Compstock buttstock. We added 2 extra
    springs inside for relatively hard recoiling gun, as stock originally made
    for a REM 870 Pump. Works great and looks nice; will putting one on
    the Magtech 585HE singleshot break action and got one in rifle stock
    for Ruger 77 in 585HE.



    And many guys want wildcats with shoulders, with big neck down, so
    in developing the ultimate 700 blaster, here is the 700HSM. Shown next
    to Gibbs 650gr ball powder..1000gr at 3800...How about that.
    Will be one of only 2 guns I plan on being over 30 lbs, other is 2bore..
    Whoppee.....Ed


  2. #362
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    The sabots aren't moving and I got to get funds out of
    them asap, emergency bill coming... And seeing as how
    we're low on slugs to send with the sabots, in big numbers,
    and no one has yet to buy out our stash of sabots and
    set up so they can be selling the sabots, we will try selling
    them fast in next few weeks . So to get these moving
    out fast and getting tested, and we pay our bills,we will
    be having sale on just the sabots, in larger amounts only.
    We will send one each of 440gr and 500gr slug so
    the guys can see what we have found that works.
    Because of the shipping costs and boxes that 2, 3, or 4 bags
    of sabots fit in, that has an affordable postage cost to pay,
    we have to sell these in 200, 300, and 400 size orders..
    So, 200 sabots $47 Shipping included,
    300 sabots $65 Shipping included...400 for $83 shipping incl.
    Now 200 of the other brand X of undersize ones cost $68
    plus shipping. There was dozens of guys the last few
    years all over the internet that bought undersize junk,
    that wanted good sabots and complained that the ones
    they bought elsewhere didn't work...... I haven't heard
    from most of them, So guys see if you got time, please
    help us out here..MO, Check, Paypal..Ed

  3. #363
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    The sabots work in brass cases .First is sabot in a Magtech brass case,
    next to 3" plastic.. In shorter brass it would hold about as much powder
    as in longer plastic if loaded like in the picture..
    Sabots are about .734-735" with slugs in them, and
    the Magtech brass with its thin sides still is slightly small OD at the
    top compared to plastic, with sabot wedged in.



    Next is sabot in RMC case, and sides are full thickness like plastic cases
    at the mouth, so don't expand case to hold sabot. We have RMC make case
    mouth ID to fit sabot. Sabot being little over fits barrels tight and rifling
    impresses into plastic well and gets best spin, and being tight it leaves barrel
    straight, with petals opening evenly. Brass case mouths are tight enough that
    we push sabot in with a press.Saves trying to crimp heavy RMC case.



    Here is picture of a barrel and barrel on a gun from 20 gauge singlshots that
    will have the heavy 20ga rifled barrel in picture, mono-blocked into them.


  4. #364
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Ed,

    Did you say you have actually got the sabots made that you were working on getting molded? Not the BPI ones right?

    IF SO, then I am going to buy some - been waiting to hear this for a LONG time now!

    Edit to add - just tried to send you an email from my Hotmail account - didn't go through with the email you provided: gunowner @ journey . com

    ... is there another email account I can use?

  5. #365
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Yes we have sabots made we wanted and yo ucan get somw,]
    min order 200 fo $47 shipping included, 300 for $65 -- 400 for $83

    MyiSP blocks that site, Just PM me on here.


    Here is 16ga discarding sabots made from grey ones with other 16ga slugs..
    20 ga factory sabot on left for comparison.



    Here is picture of 12ga wads showing good and bad support.



    Here are 2 sabots on the right with super heavy tungsten slug. It is 1100gr,
    but tungsten costs ten times what lead costs.



    Here is a sabot home defense or close range defense load setup using our
    sabot. It has five flattened 45cal balls in it. Flattened into a fat disc weighing
    145gr each. You'd star crimp it or use card over them and roll crimp. Like
    having a bunch of supersize flat buckshot, only super big.



    Here is comparison picture of the 58cal slugs used in our 12ga sabots, with the
    puny slugs used in many other sabots. And we've moved 5500 of the sabots.
    Deer season is coming fast. Maybe time to get loads tested/sighted in is now.



    Some more figures. The 24hr Campfire forums is first one, with our 12ga FH thread,
    to get over half million thread views.The HighRoad second.
    TheFiringLine third. AR fourth...Ed
    Last edited by hubel458; 07-18-2013 at 02:05 AM.

  6. #366
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of current 58cal slug options that
    you can get molds for from Lyman,
    Just make sure they are .574" to .577" diameter,
    the best size for the 12ga sabots.




    A barrel of 585HE cases..Ed



    Made by Bertram and I tested them to max loads and cases hardly expanded,
    650gr over 3000 fps. The same draws used by him to make high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and to finish mine just uses belted header and cases left
    straight and trimmed longer.He makes tens of thousands Cheytac steady all
    the time now and can make ours steady also when needed.....Ed

  7. #367
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for posting this Ed! Good reference information for sabot load testing, although with other things going on right now I don't know if I'll be able to take these hunting this year

    That 585 HE looks VERY interesting! I am *completely* oblivious to the conversion. What would be needed? Is this another heavy shotgun conversion or something else?

  8. #368
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Just need a long rifle action say like an Enfield or MRC PH, etc or Ruger #1 action, and rifled
    585 cal barrel. We have cases, dies, reamers, soon have barrels.


    One of our sabot testers with tight barrel, Abolt, with wide lands in
    the barrel, who couldn't do any good at all with our sabot and Alliant Steel
    and one type of slug, had to go to IMR 4759.
    It would twist up the sabot petals. Terrible accuracy.

    My guns have NEF/Sav size barrels and worked fine with Steel as well as 4759.
    Petals open perfect. The Abolt barrel is about .005" smaller than NEF/Sav and
    the lands over twice as wide as the NEF. And has real narrow grooves.
    Guys with Nefs say sabots open fine like ours here.

    He went to different Minie slug and our slow powder loads using
    IMR 4759 powder up to 78-79 gr and finally got down to 2.5" group, I told him
    go to max which is about 80-82 in 3" case.That barrel is like a lot of
    EU made barrels and many are replacement or add on barrels in many slug guns,
    and that is reason why it is so hard to get accuracy across the board in
    sabot shooting in all guns--Takes a lot of work.. Another tester with NEF 12ga using
    Alliant Steel with sabots got good groups like we did here. I tell guys if
    problems occur go to 4759.

    What was happening to sabot petals in the barrel, with the extra tight fit and
    wide lands were petals twisting.. The wide lands were not cutting into the base of
    sabot like in NEF/Sav210 barrels. The twist effect of rifling was on the surface
    of petals, twisting them. It was not getting good hold on the sabot body. The
    4759 starting slower allowed the sabot to get its spin started up to speed
    with the wide land rifling and narrow grooves..It is just the opposite of
    way NEF/Sav 12ga barrels are done. with narrow lands which impress into
    the sabot base the way it is supposed to work..I showed pics above of the
    good rifling marks impressed into our sabots.

    I think after this experimenting run I feel that a lot of accuracy problems
    across the spectrum of barrels are due to barrel differences, and not just
    the differences in factory slugs and/or reloading components.

    Here is pic of bag of our 585 cases with plain head if some need them for
    wildcatting.We have quite a few. Fifteen have 585HE cases now. 585 gun
    building is accelerating. We can get folks going with 100 cases, dies, and soon
    a barrel; and shipping, for 750.They find an action...Ed


  9. #369
    Gunco Veteran hunter_02's Avatar
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    650gr @ 3000+ is more than three times the ME of a .375 H&H.
    May I ask what this round is used for? Or is it just an exercise to see what can be done?
    Thanks. Hunter

  10. #370
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Man You have really taken this to a another new level .

    Im staring at those cases an thinking what I could make out of them LOL

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