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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #371
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    They make holes big enough to see easy and a good stopper cartridge.
    And just a real blast to shoot. Like getting ahold of most beautiful gal in the
    world, doing a 5 second 1/4 mile,,,,, or winning a modified tractor pull,
    which I've done.

    Here is picture of our 12ga sabots with the marks that the barrel lands made, marked with
    black marker. The one with narrow mark is Savage barrel and one with wide mark is
    an Abolt barrel. And the ones fired in Savage and NEFs with the narrow lands the marks
    impressed into the plastic getting good bite and not twisting the petals. The one from abolt
    he used slower powder for easier start and it open petals ok, without twisting petals like
    the faster powder did for him.

    Next is picture showing top edge of sabots. Our sabot on left you roll crimp down over
    the inside of it a little . We have lots of them yet.
    The other factory sabot they crimp real short and sharp
    180 degree crimp down on top of it.

    We see a use for modified 585 application in Indiana deer hunting. Mainly shotgun only, but
    they also allow rifles with over 35cal pistol calibers; and any over 35cal rifle with a case
    1.8" or shorter, usually short wildcats. So we have the the 585 HI... The I is for Indiana.
    Here is picture of it next to the kinda little 500 S&W. 585 HI holds over 80 gr powder.

    Next picture is a Magtech chambered for it. Gets 440gr Minie over 2,100 fps.
    The .585"- .587" Minies of 440gr, 540gr, etc work in it, and they're good deer slugs
    We got other guns with it going into; bolt guns, like in the last picture,
    single shots and checking couple lever actions.
    Might work great in MNs many guys like....Ed

  2. #372
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    In above post we compare the top thickness of sabots
    .Here is comparison of the thickness of the sides of two types of
    brass 12ga cases, the RMC turned case and the thinner
    Magtech drawn case. Easy to see you can't size with same dies
    and sometimes you have to use different wads..

    In posts earler in the thread you saw variety of wad columns with
    12ga sabots and here is picture of my favorite wads to go between
    seal and sabot. The white felt ones from BPI. They compress down
    evenly on firing, easy to load, decent price,

    You've seen the work on our 585HE posted. Folks ask what case
    I made first ones from and how. Here is a sketch showing the steps
    I used to make the first 585HE from long basic straight Nyati brass.
    The start of the belt step I put on the case where it is thick I do it
    in my case spinner lathe I made. Then case is lubed and run into
    couple swaging/sizing dies and comes out formed into our belted,
    straight sided, 585HE case...... It is really faster getting a big
    run of cases made in a factory.

    Shot a 12ga sabot load w/440 gr Minie bullet in smoothbore Rossi
    in 3" case, Going about 1700... .. 4" group 3 shots at 30 yds.
    Gun works fine, shoots nice. Got extra weight in the butt.
    The Minie I used is a semi-round nose. If I had the ones of same length
    with blunt nose, slightly heavier the group size would be smaller as
    they'd be more nose heavy, be like Foster slugs..Ed

  3. #373
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    All I can say is keep up the good work .

    I have been contemplating a slug gun for deer . an have followed this thread a lot .

  4. #374
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of the group improvement a guy had shooting our
    sabots in a real tight barrel. Actually an undersize barrel compared
    to Savage and Nef barrels. Had a wide open group with shotgun
    powder but made it much smaller using much more
    of the slower 4759.

    There is a guy now in Canada with our sabots for guys there and
    other countries, and as well, he can ship back to here. He plans
    on supplying the .58cal slugs also for the sabots if guys can't get
    them or don't cast their own.......
    Contact is- jeff.a.white at
    If things work out for him he plans on getting a bunch
    our 585 cases imported for sales there

    I got some factory 8ga kiln loads, 3 oz lead at 1800 in the long
    barrel falling block. Got box of 25 to see how they compared to
    the loads we set up.Our favorite is 900gr at 2300. in plastic case.

    Here is picture of section 585HE case showing 4 pyrodex 54cal,
    60gr equivalent pellets, with a 440 gr Minie bullet.
    Actual powder wt is about 185gr....Goes about 2600.
    Nice cloud of smoke and really bellers out of the slow twist barrel
    barrel we set up for minies.....Top pellet tapered a little and fit
    inside thr hollwbase of the bullet....Ed

  5. #375
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Another use for 58cal Minie Bullets would be to setup a 24ga FH.
    Minie bullets cheap to cast and buy. We use the .575-.577" in our
    12ga sabot, and the .585-.587 in my 585HE. And you could use
    577 NE bullets also.

    For those in shotgun only areas there is a way. You can get 2.5"
    Magtech brass cases, but also you can set up a 3" chamber and use
    577NE 3" brass. Grafs shows some under 4 bucks each. Cheaper
    than getting them made. And if you set up chamber with shotgun style
    forcing cone you could shoot shorter Magtech as well as plastic cases.
    Reason to use 577 cases, they are stronger solid head, last forever,
    and can be run higher pressures and still last forever.
    You can get barrels, 58cal at Green Mtn I think. .We got some also.

    AND the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more
    will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14
    that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks,
    1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly
    Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pictures soon.

    Here are couple pictures of a 585HE gun a guy is doing with nice
    walnut stock. Gun has extra bedding lug and accra-glassed.
    It is an Enfield and has single stack magazine.

  6. #376
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of 24ga FH in the Mossberg bolt gun. On a
    Mossy 390 frame, .585" heavy barrel, same as 24ga size.
    Chamber is set up 3" with shotgun style forcing cone,
    so it can use 2.5" plastic cases and 2.5" Magtech brass
    cases with slugs or shot and for 3" cases we use 577NE
    3" brass. Really make a hairy 24ga using the 440gr to
    540 gr Minie bullets at 21-2400. If you take 540 Minie bullet
    mould and leave out base pin you'd have a 650gr that
    would do. All these bullets and slugs as well as jacketed and
    turned 577/585 bullets work in 24ga as well as my 585HE.
    And the smaller Minies work in our 12ga sabots. I keep
    saying 58cal is where it is at, and there are more bullet and
    slug choices in the .585 size, easy to find, than any other
    caliber over 458. And Minies are like 40 cents each and
    cheaper if you cast your own.

    Here is picture .585" barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
    Most of the McGowens profiled and some straight blanks.
    Others we have are the slow twist and smooth blanks...
    In back some of the cases and die sets.

    Here is picture of an Enfield and a BBK in Hogue recoil
    reducing stocks. These stocks are the rubber coated ones with
    the easy to grip, nice pistol grip.Has McGowen 26 inch barrels,
    1 to 20 twist, barrels are heavy profile and taper
    to .980 inch at the muzzle. Guys are doing more Enfields
    and other actions through the winter. Ed

  7. #377
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Some guys in 12ga like to use the Magtech brass cases
    but the cases being brass the sides are thinner than
    plastic, and that makes loose fit in 12ga chambers.
    And cases expand a lot with heavier loaded slug
    loads, are harder to resize, wear out quicker.
    But I found that .750 hollowbase 10ga slug fits
    those cases and still chambers in regular 12ga.
    chamber, it isnt a sloppy fit.

    So If you have a 12ga smooth barrel with full length
    backbore job, of .850" bore or bigger you could use
    the Magtech brass and .850" size 10ga hollowbase slugs.
    Now these .850" slugs won't go in a 12ga plastic case
    and chamber in regular 12ga chamber.And you do not
    fire them through 12ga regular size barrel.

    Brett in MN used the a BPI AQ slugs in his full length
    backbored 12ga and got fair accuracy as he said the wads
    under slugs expanded a lot for a decent fit.
    The 10ga slug shown in the 2.5 inch Magtech is 800 gr,
    and .850" diameter. These cases will take magnum
    pressure so you can get good speed, for what this short
    case can hold.

    It is too bad they don't make 3" and 3.5" versions.
    These 2.5" cases are easier to find and much less than
    others, so if needing brass ones you can rig up guns
    to work with them. To build a new barreled gun in actual
    12ga size, IE .729" bore, you'd make chamber to
    minimum specs so cases don't over expand.
    In the picture are 2 10ga slugs on right, like in the case,
    and 2 12ga jacketed slugs and one 12ga lead slug left.ED

    Here is the ytube URL again for our guy
    shooting 585HE in his NEF----By mid summer we plan on a
    pickup truck load of more 585HE cases coming in.

    Last edited by hubel458; 02-22-2014 at 02:53 PM.

  8. #378
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is good simple system with big hollowbase slugs to stop
    the skirts from deforming, I found that dense dow foam works
    good, I was using glue gun but dow foam is easier, Just cut
    plugs out of foam sheet and force into the base. Make a tight
    fit, use spot of glue inside, glue that is for foam....
    Trim off the foam flush..In picture is 10 ga 900gr slug.

    How we get good 24ga plastic seals with protusion on
    top that fits up inside 58cal Minie base, same bore as 24ga
    and our 585HE. I get the 24ga seal by cutting apart the BPI
    24ga Brush wad, getting two seals out of each.Works great
    in plastic case giving a shorter column than other seals and
    wads, so we can get in enough of our 4759 for good speed.
    The 24ga idea is getting nicer all the time with
    the variety of cheap 58cal slugs, and good 3" brass cases,
    drawn cases, we didn't have to wait to get made.
    And all kind of guns we can use, bolt 395 Mossbergs, single
    shots of all kinds, Autos,, pumps. bolt action Savage,
    even 1887 Win and Greener MKIII, bolt action JC Higgins. .

    Here is picture Khan auto we setting up 24ga FH, it is 3.5"
    model, has a 12ga barrel to change with. Being 3.5" it
    feeds/ejects through lengthened port 3" brass 24ga cases we
    made from 577NE brass. We rework back of the bolt for
    slightly longer stroke.Ed

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