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Thread: 12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

  1. #381
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    You would gave to make the 577 rim 24ga size, shrink it .030", and stamp
    20 on the base, and in that way it is just another 24ga brass shotgun case;
    That we make instead of getting magtech ones which are too thin to hold slugs right.
    Mag techs so thin that when we make cases fit .585" slug it is so loose
    in chamber it rattles, and firing expands huge amount and then it is
    hard to size without crushing it.

    Finally got back to forums.Been busy with 24ga FH and 585HE
    and getting 585 cases made, as many as possible...

    We are now working a bit with 24ga FH and here is picture
    of it with our 585HE case. Both use same bullets/slugs, same
    bore barrels. Main use difference, 24ga FH easy setup in break
    actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.



    Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
    458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
    was pulled out and they wouldn't stay in tight. Sabot was a loose fit
    in 20ga, made for 20ga, but small, so I shrunk the bottom rib,
    fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. Fits real tight to give
    good resistance for good ignition.



    Here is another 24ga/585 sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
    bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal ML. With 250 gr bullet in 585
    will go about mach 4.



    Here is easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
    coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect without being
    too heavy if using that much lead.And coating keeps them quiet, and
    we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed


  2. #382
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.

    If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

    next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed




    I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
    extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
    one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
    than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
    on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed


  3. #383
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Here is picture of 585HE 100 cases loaded, CEB solid nose bullets
    and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
    or wide hollowpoint. .



    Here is picture of triball loads that fellows like for deer and hogs,
    and just general tear em up fun, with using BPGS seal to improve
    sealing under what are heavier loads. The balls are .600" and
    315gr. each. The wadcup is a TUPRW123 that Precision sells.



    I need a bunch of empty 3.5" 20ga plastic cases.


    Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
    Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like, usually
    set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
    size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid
    shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
    off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,
    to our 585HE the strongest yet.

    The 577NE is an offshoot of 24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went
    eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
    cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
    577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
    then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
    and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
    of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
    diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
    and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
    and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
    was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
    over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

    Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
    24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
    reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
    stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

    For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
    the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
    reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
    The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
    about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
    We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
    with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

    Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
    break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
    goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
    Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
    to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
    energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
    gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
    actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
    So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
    .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

    Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
    and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

  4. #384
    Gunco Member hubel458's Avatar
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    Guys asking about using 585 CEB bullet in our 12ga super
    sabot. Here is picture, We just took off the bottom band and couple
    middle bands on the CEB and it fit perfect in our 12ga sabot,
    which uses .575" slugs. Hollowpoint one pictured 700gr in the
    sabot loaded in brass case. Can be used in plastic case with a
    special made hollowed out long roll crimper.



    Getting some more interest in our 585HE.
    An application for our 585 HE is for guys with old military 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

    And a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel could get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to about same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. About 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. For tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. 100 of our cases do over 2000 reloads.



    I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns, the
    actions once sporterized are one of the longest for long cases. .
    Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
    cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
    inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
    Ruger 77 handle, the one on the right . Something even a novice
    like me can do.....



    A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
    ones in our 24ga FH. That hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
    to 700gr depending on how much we cut off the back..
    The 24ga FH brass case is nice complement to our 585HE,
    for shotgun only deer hunters that want a .585" caliber,
    and easy to find big bore bullets.... Ed


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