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Thread: Short barreled shotgun not NFA

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    Gunco Veteran Frogman's Avatar
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    Default Short barreled shotgun not NFA

    I was perusing Sturmgewehr and came across a sight selling a hand grip for a Mossburg shotgun. There claiming that you can have a 14" BBL shotgun A/O 26" and not be subject to NFA rules? The name is shockwavetechnologies, I also saw one at a gun show - short BBL shotgun made by the Turk's or Russians a while ago, has the law changed or has the BATF made a new ruling, they used to be called AOL weapons and needed papper work.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and goverment, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so that the second will not become the legal version of the first" ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Gunco Member bulrich's Avatar
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    I saw the same thing at the last show I went to and the guy told me the same thing.

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    Moderator Chiroone's Avatar
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    It has something to do with ability to be fired from the shoulder as I recall from an ATF bulletin, however, I can not find that bulletin any where.
    Nemo ME Impune Lacessit
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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Yes, it's legal in some cases. Basically, fed law defines a shotgun as a shoulder fired smoothbore firearm. With a PG, it is not shoulder fired so does not meet the Fed definition of shotgun.

    Fed NFA law defines a short bbl shotgun as:
    (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
    (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;

    Here's where the "sometimes" comes in. Mossberg and a few other companies sell their products with a PG installed at the factory, not a buttstock. Under Fed law, these are not shotguns, they are simply "firearms" with no legal sub-classification like a rifle, handgun, etc. So, if one takes one of the these factory PG shotguns, or say you can find a virgin receiver to build on, you can legally cut the bbl shorter than 18" so long as the overall length remains 26" or longer. The catch is, since Fed law defines an SBS as any "firearm made from a shotgun", it is illegal to do this to a shotgun that came from the factory with a buttstock attached since at one time the gun was indeed legally a shotgun.

    AOW, or Any Other Weapon also applies, which is why the overall length must be kept over 26". The part of that law that would apply to such a gun states it must be "concealable". ATF uses 26" overall length as the test for whether or not a firearm is concealable. Keep it over, not an AOW. Go under, you need to register and pay the tax.

    The main problem here is 99.999999% of LE you run across will have absolutely no idea that what you have is legal, they will see "sawed off shotgun" and arrest. In the end, you might prevail but the $200 tax looks a lot cheaper than legal bills. Also, state and local laws apply, and their definition of SBS may vary enough to cover one of these. Also note the letter below states that IF you are found actually concealing one of these bad boys, they MAY decide the AOW law applies after all, since they have actual evidence they ARE concealable. So no Doc Holiday rigs, please, or the loophole these fit in may close up fast.

    ATF letters:

    http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/Pisto...hotgunLike.pdf

    http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

    http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...edactedPg1.jpg

    http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...edactedPg2.jpg

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernelkrink View Post
    The main problem here is 99.999999% of LE you run across will have absolutely no idea that what you have is legal, they will see "sawed off shotgun" and arrest. In the end, you might prevail but the $200 tax looks a lot cheaper than legal bills. Also, state and local laws apply, and their definition of SBS may vary enough to cover one of these. Also note the letter below states that IF you are found actually concealing one of these bad boys, they MAY decide the AOW law applies after all, since they have actual evidence they ARE concealable. So no Doc Holiday rigs, please, or the loophole these fit in may close up fast.
    Agree 100% - $200 is a bonus when you think about it. You really have to ask yourself "WHY" would you want one this short other than the "look I'm a gangsta yo" cool factor.

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    tired of idiots vz58's Avatar
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    SBS shotguns are VERY nice for room clearing. Plus in and out of vehicles is much easier.

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    Gunco Member bulrich's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Kernel!

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    Gunco Regular mbkrifleman's Avatar
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    I hunted birds for many years, and have taken a lot of hunters with me. The only two shotguns that I will not drag up here are a Mossberg, and a Remington 1100. I damn shure would not trust my life to one of those. I would rather have a regular birdgun, and two shots that I knew were going to go off. That is why I shoot Beretta's.

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    White Cracker 4thIDvet's Avatar
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    Default Frogman..

    If the kernel says it is legal, it is legal. But...
    I just took my Tax Stamped SBR, the one with the tractor trailer trigger pull, out too the Ocala Forest range.
    Nice place good people.
    When the range goes cold, self supervised, we all B.S. and talk guns.
    Guy are checking out my 7 in., think it is shorty.
    "Nice weapon, cool, that's illegal, is it a machine gun?"
    Young guy, 'who wants too shoot my machine gun' and me, get too talkin.
    "What do you do for work?"
    "Rookie State Trooper. I never fired a machine gun, I would really like too try one."
    Nice kid, was not busting my chops, he just wanted too fire a machine gun..
    I spent the next hour explaining the rules of form 1s, Tax Stamps and the legal ownership of short barreled weapons and full autos.
    Point here is.
    The laws are so confusing, how can we expect the average L.O.s on the beat too understand them.
    For the few bucks, I would SBR Tax Stamp that weapon.
    If you wanted too put a stock on it later, it would be feasible.
    Might be a time and hassle saver down the road for you, if your ever pulled over.
    "Man needs but two things to survive alone in the woods. A blow up female doll and his trusty old AK-47" - Thomas Jefferson 1781


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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    You can also register them as an AOW, if you start out with the PG version and leave the stock off. One major advantage to this is the tranfer tax is only $5, not $200. Lots easier to sell when the tax is so low, and if you can get a licensed manufacturer of NFA items to install the bbl for you for less than $195 (he makes items tax free, the business pays a single $500 tax a year to cover everything) he can then transfer to you for $5 and you save on taxes. If you make it yourself on a form 1, the $200 "making tax" is due. Where I live, SBS are illegal, AOWs are not. So I cannot own a full stocked shotgun with 17.5" bbls, but a Serbu Shorty is perfectly fine.


    Super Shorty
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Short barreled shotgun not NFA-1275504389.jpg  


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