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Thread: "Would you shoot?"

  1. #1
    TRX
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    Default "Would you shoot?"

    On another forum, someone presented a fairly common tactical scenario:

    "You're in a small store making a purchase, and through the window you see a crazoid raving that he's going to kill everyone he sees, and then he pulls out a gun. You have your carry weapon at hand. At what point will you fire?"

    I guess I got influenced by Massad Ayoob's "In Gravest Extreme" early. I've always been aware of the backlash even the most justified shooting can create. My plan has always been to avoid pulling the gun if at all possible. It's at least partially my fault if I get into a situation where it might be necessary, and in the case of an ordinary mugger, the $100 or so in my wallet is a bargain compared to a lawyer and time lost from work. So grabbing steel and playing hero has never been something I've planned to do if I could avoid it.

    From the situation given, the guy hasn't actually shot anyone yet, so in my state I'd be making new friends at the prison if I fired. I would have to wait for him to actually shoot someone before I'm on stable legal ground. Then my state has a law that *requires* me as a citizen to use any level of force, including deadly force, to stop murder, rape, or arson. So I'm legally obliged to tangle with a shooter, even if he's not an immediate threat to *me*. And I'll still wind up getting close and personal with the police and court system, no matter how justified or what kind of video the store's cameras get.

    Maybe I'm sour due to the news in the last few weeks, but I just made a decision. In view of the local law, not an entirely lawful one should I be caught. But my sudden insight is that every single one of that shooter's potential victims made a choice NOT to have a gun, and I'll be damned if I'll stick my happy parts in the meat grinder to come to their rescue. To hell with them; I'll slide out the back door and away. "NINE PEOPLE KILLED BY CRAZED GUNMAN!" Aw, "the news is sad today, oh boy..."

    They made their choice. Let them suffer for it. I'm not playing.

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    GuncoHolic Black Blade's Avatar
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    I figure if people (primarily adults) have no respect for their own lives then who am I to upset the balance of nature. I look at it as Darwinism - "Natural Selection" if you will. If my life or the lives of those close to me are endangered then I have no problem using deadly force. I would likely intervene if the intended victims were children but adults who know better who refuse to defend themselves only reinforce my view of the laws of nature where it's "survival of the fittest" and the weak are removed from the gene pool therefore improving the species.
    When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin


  3. #3
    Gunco Member weldingmachine's Avatar
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    As much as I would like to leave the sheep to their own devices, I would feel compelled to help.
    I have a wife & a daughter. I would hope that if the SHTF any man worth his salt would help them if they needed it.
    I would have to do the same.
    If you already have a bead on him, and he doesn't know you are there, command him to "FREEZE"
    He is going to do 1 of 3 things:
    1. He'll Run. Just let the perp go. Threat is gone.
    2. He'll Look at you & realize that he has no hope & surrenders.
    3. He'll start shooting. You know what to do at this point, you already have him in your sights.
    Just my $.02 of course.

  4. #4
    Gunco Regular PuppyChow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weldingmachine View Post
    As much as I would like to leave the sheep to their own devices, I would feel compelled to help.
    I have a wife & a daughter. I would hope that if the SHTF any man worth his salt would help them if they needed it.
    I would have to do the same.
    If you already have a bead on him, and he doesn't know you are there, command him to "FREEZE"
    He is going to do 1 of 3 things:
    1. He'll Run. Just let the perp go. Threat is gone.
    2. He'll Look at you & realize that he has no hope & surrenders.
    3. He'll start shooting. You know what to do at this point, you already have him in your sights.
    Just my $.02 of course.
    pretty much sums it up

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    GuncoHolic 555th's Avatar
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    two to the body, one to the head.

  6. #6
    Gunco Regular frige's Avatar
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    Just my luck I would pull my pistol and someone would mistake me for another perp and shoot me as well.
    In Houston last week a nutcase chased down his ol lady and started stabbing her right on the side of the road. A guy with a chl stopped and pulled his peacemaker. Told him lay down or I will shoot. The guy did as he was told the cops came took him away and life is great. I would do something like that in a heartbeat. But you never know what the crazy will do.......

    "Shakin' it over here, boss"

  7. #7
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    i would shoot --not because of any need to help or be some kind of hero , none of that kind of BS.

    i would shoot because that automatic trip wire uncle sam put in my head way back in 1981 just got tripped.

    personally i try to avoid any kind of space where some nut job could go on a spree or any other kind of high crime metro areas.

  8. #8
    Gunco Member USMCE4retired's Avatar
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    Default Agree with OPer.

    I have to agree with TRX.
    I have spent most of my life being helpful and more than considerat to others. Even strangers. Unfortunately times have changed. People no longer have an ultruistic bone in their body.
    It is a difficult thing to harden myself against helping the helpless but that is probably the best way to keep myself and family safe.
    You see, you can't save someone from themselves. They end up resenting you for it.

  9. #9
    Gunco Regular renegadebuck's Avatar
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    Once you're already at gunpoint, even if you had a ccw, going for it would probably just mean you were the first one shot. It depends how many and where you are in relationship. If you are in the rear comparatively, you could be safe in drawing. If you're right in front then I bet you would kiss someone outside the zone for a distraction.

    I would like to say that I would let him go and leave fate alone, but that would mean I give him permission to attack me and mine at another time. Kinda like buying or not speaking up about buying stolen goods. It sorta gives permission to steal from you in a passive sort of way.
    Biblical stance is "To him that knows to do good and does it not, to him, it is sin." James 4:17
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  10. #10
    I am my favorite American gunnerxxx's Avatar
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    Quickly access the situation, then drop his ass!

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