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Thread: Was Kalahanikov a fraud! what do you think

  1. #1
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    Default Was Kalahanikov a fraud! what do you think

    found this on another site not my thoughts but made me rethink

    was Kalashikov was a fraud,
    but don't let history get in your way. Facts burst a lot of balloons. Take care of your balloons. After all, if you can't hold onto your propaganda, then all you have left is the ugly truth, and the truth always gets in the way. Truth, is such a pain in the a_ _.
    Kalashnikov: Another “Hero” invented by the USSR, the failed communist “paradise”.
    Kalashnikov was simply one of millions of necessary propaganda deceits by the USSR.
    .....
    Kalashnikov consistently denied, for over 50 years, that the AK47 was derived from the Wehrmacht's Stg44.
    Of course, that is a lie, Kalashnikov having finally admitted in 2009 that the captured German weapons designer, Hug Schmeisser "helped" design the famous AK47 which strongly resembles Schmeisser's brilliantly designed Stg44, also borrowing the rotating bolt from the U.S. M1 Carbine and Garand.

    Hugo Schmeisser, the German designer of the Stg44, was actually with Kalashnikov when Kalashnokov "invented" the AK. Schmeisser was a brilliant engineer, designing many rifles, with different actions, over many decades. Schmeisser and other captured German weapons engineers were shipped east to work with Kalashnikov. The "Hero" Kalashnokov, who lacked a high school education, "invented" only one action, copying “his” action to other derivative rifles.
    Facts get in the way for Mikhail Kalashnikov. The AK was Schmeisser’s. USSR communist propaganda has taken many hits since the failure of the soviet state. History and facts are not kind to propaganda. Kalashnikov lived for over 50 years as a propaganda creation. Hugo Schmeisser died in 1953, behind the Iron Curtain in the Soviet occupied sector, in Suhl, East Germany..
    .....
    Kalashnikov consistently denied that the 7.62x39 cartridge was derived from the 8mm kurz of the tg44.
    Of course, that is a lie. The AK round was derived directly from the intermediate combat cartridge (7.92x33) of the Stg44.
    .....
    Kalashnikov consistently denied that the 5.56 was a superior cartridge to the 7.62x39.
    Of course, it was, the commies switching to a very similar round in the AK74 which replace the AK47 in the Warsaw pact armed forces in 1974.
    ....
    Commie history books also have commies inventing the airplane, steam engine, micro-processor, telephone, telegraph, etc. You name it, and the commies claimed credit for inventing it.
    Source:
    Kalahanikov’s 2009 admission was documented in two significant Post-Commie journals. The original article published in the Russian magazine Life; the same article published in Ziua, the second largest daily newspaper in Romania.


    was he a fraud or was it a coincedence

    the russians matched our Jet technology with captured german scientist, rocket technology, optics technology, they stripped the bloody country of people and objects as reparations
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  2. #2
    THE 9mm ADDICT MUSIBIKE's Avatar
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    The MP44 is a completely different system from an AK47.

    This old RUSSIAN did not have a bunch of certificates, a degree plus did not wear a suit and tie. But, he was more of a real design engineer than most of the suit and tie guys who amount to little more than just a bunch of bobble heads now.
    M U S I B I K E

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    AKAHOLIC o.d. ak's Avatar
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    as Musibike said above, the Stg44 and AK are completely different designs.

    i think its a pretty accepted fact that Kalashnikov wasnt the sole designer as he was the head of a team that designed the gun, and maybe Schmeisser's input was used as well. But the gun does not resemble any of Schmeisser's other designs so i find the claim that he was the engineer very dubious.

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    Gunco Veteran Frogman's Avatar
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    I sure would not discount Sprat's article, look at China's lunar moon vehicle anybody see the similarities to our moon rovers. I have a cheap Chinese Rolex. Wernher von Braun headed our Man-To-the-Moon program its not hard to believe Hug Schmeisser headed the AK development in the back ground.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and goverment, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so that the second will not become the legal version of the first" ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    If you look real close at the Ak, you will see that it is using a lot of the Garand sytem, just laid out differently. The gas system is on top instead of under the bbl, which allowed the use of a bolt carrier instead of an op rod. Look at the way a Garand bolt interacts with the op rod and locking lugs in the receiver, again the same system just modified to work with the carrier. Even the trigger system is the same, just laid out differently and simplified. Flag style safety taken from the Remington semi auto rifles. Yes, the AK has a similar look to the STg44 externally, but so do most "assault rifles" as the Stg44 was essentially the first design that brought all the ergonomic elements together in the "best" way.

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    Gunco Regular Eugene Onegin's Avatar
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    Did MTK ever meet HS face to face ?
    Tree huggin' dirt worshipper!

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    Cranky Curmudgeon zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    I'm sure he indeed had a lot of input on it, but pretty much everything in the Soviet Union was run or overseen by committees. I had to study a lot of Russian military history in the Navy, can't think of many exceptions to that.
    Certified AR-15/M-16 Armorer / SIG Pistol Armorer

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    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    from wiki

    On 3 April 1945 American troops began to occupy the city of Suhl. Weapons manufacturing was completely prohibited during this time. Hugo Schmeisser and his brother Hans were interrogated for weeks by weapon expert teams of the American and British secret services. At the end of June 1945, American troops evacuated Suhl and all of Thuringia. One month later, the Red Army assumed control over the area, starting a civilian works project to manufacture weapons for the Soviet Union. By August 1945, the Red Army had created 50 StG44s from existing assembly parts, and had begun inspecting their design. 10,785 sheets of technical designs were confiscated by the Soviets as part of their research. In October 1945, Schmeisser was forced to work for the Red Army and instructed to continue development of new weapons.
    Schmeisser's brilliance continued to impress the Red Army, and he, along with other weapons designers and their families, was relocated to the USSR. On 24 October 1946 the German specialists rode a train to Izhevsk in the southern Ural Mountains, where a center of Russian firearms development was located.
    Schmeisser was one of 16 Germans for which a special department (no. 58) was created at factory number 74, later known as Izmash. Schmeisser was appointed as one of the five designers of the group, together with Kurt Horn and Werner Gruner (both from Grossfuss) and Oscar Schink (from Gustloff), under the formal leadership of Karl Barnitske (also from Gustloff). There is some evidence that Schmeisser was uncooperative with the Soviets because he received the most negative review by his Soviet handlers in this group of five German designers. In these Soviet reviews, Schmeisser was described as a "practical man", who invoked his lack of formal training whenever he was presented with any design problems.[1] Initially Schmeisser was given a salary of 5,000 rubles per month, but this was cut after two just months to 3,500 rubles, and a month later to 2,500 rubles. These official Soviet reports match the memoirs of Yevgeny Dragunov, who described Schmeisser as afflicted by chronic lung disease and not engaging in much activity, unlike Gruner, whom Dragunov described as brilliant man, who had contributed considerably.[2]
    Schmeisser worked in Izhevsk until 1952 when he and other German specialists returned home to Germany. With short notice, his stay in the Soviet Union was extended beyond that of the other weapon specialists by a half year. He finally returned home on 9 June 1952. Schmeisser died on 12 September 1953, and was buried in Suhl.
    While the name of Hugo Schmeisser is known internationally, it is unknown to most Germans.[citation needed] The 50th anniversary of his death was honored by a ceremony held in Suhl, as he is recognized as one of the most important technical designers of infantry weapons of the 20th century.

    keep it going of course Hugo helped his fingerprints are all over it
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  9. #9
    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    Postak

    +1! when i look at a AK design i see a lot more of the m1 garand rifle than a STg44-- just take the moving parts of the old m1 garand and straighten them up and 'vola!" an AK was born!

    the nazi war machine and its industrial output in WW2 is quite a bit overrated. we all know about the V-2 rockets , 88mm guns, machine guns and tiger tanks --but much of their hi-tech hardware was poorly thought out and badly made. overly soft steel, jet engines that wouldn't last 8 flight hours, wooden props , unarmored bombers, bad fuses, hell they sent the entire 6th army to russia with no winter clothing--how fricking smart was that? LOL! they must have floated a few kegs coming up with that one--LOL!


    Quote Originally Posted by kernelkrink View Post
    If you look real close at the Ak, you will see that it is using a lot of the Garand sytem, just laid out differently. The gas system is on top instead of under the bbl, which allowed the use of a bolt carrier instead of an op rod. Look at the way a Garand bolt interacts with the op rod and locking lugs in the receiver, again the same system just modified to work with the carrier. Even the trigger system is the same, just laid out differently and simplified. Flag style safety taken from the Remington semi auto rifles. Yes, the AK has a similar look to the STg44 externally, but so do most "assault rifles" as the Stg44 was essentially the first design that brought all the ergonomic elements together in the "best" way.

  10. #10
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HMMMMM I have often wondered how one guy with no metal working skills developed the gun from scratch could even be possible .

    I have always felt the AK was a combination of ideas an doubted one guy came up with combining them all on his own ,

    I have looked at he AK an thought what if I moved the piston an changed this or that . Im sure he did the same with a lot of differant guns including the SKS an the garand etc .

    YOu can be bet that if a german designed the AK the russians would not have admitted it .

    Sprats article might be entirely correct or portions of it might be correct . You can bet that machinery was in short supply back then an not every one had a lathe in the shop at home . Im sure if one guy there was doing something it was not a secret to the others .

    It would be interesting to know the real story ob a lot of things , early american gun makers ripped off each others stuff all the time , look at some of the law suits just for conversion cylinders an the early cartridge revolvers hell some of that stuff went before congress . S&W, remington , colt an others were al stealing other guys ideas .

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