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Thread: 308 ak

  1. #211
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Why don't we just make our own?????

    If you have a rotating table you should be able to make one, even without indexing. Heck, I think my indexer (doesn't rotate) could be used to build one. Just need to heat treat it properly. I would use 4340, but 4130 may be good enough?

    Might as well make it a 3lug design while were at is and longer so we dont have to move the trigger guard. a m76/77 style bolt but with three lugs some thhing that will handel 65,000 Psi would be nice. I wonder what a sagia 308 will actually handel?? It can be done and Ive looked at doing it but if I were to do it Id want to make a bunch of them and I just simply dont have the funds for it or the insurance to sell them. I am starting to see more and more guys with CNC equipment talking about doing bolts and trunions. Turbothis ahs been playing with a CHC mill on the AK forum and he has made some cool looking stuff he was talking of doing 19mm trunions.
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  2. #212
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    Might as well make it a 3lug design while were at is and longer so we dont have to move the trigger guard. a m76/77 style bolt but with three lugs some thhing that will handel 65,000 Psi would be nice. I wonder what a sagia 308 will actually handel?? It can be done and Ive looked at doing it but if I were to do it Id want to make a bunch of them and I just simply dont have the funds for it or the insurance to sell them. I am starting to see more and more guys with CNC equipment talking about doing bolts and trunions. Turbothis ahs been playing with a CHC mill on the AK forum and he has made some cool looking stuff he was talking of doing 19mm trunions.
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    The Saigas and Veprs had to pass CIP proof testing which is 125% of standard max chamber pressure. They first tried a two lug 308 design that wouldn't pass CIP proof testing.

  3. #213
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Yea that my understanding as well. thats also why I dont shoot factory loads in my conversions. the 243 im going to do will be loaded well under factory as the 243 has higher pressures than the 308 for some reason.

  4. #214
    Gunco Member aloharover's Avatar
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    Why not just get a Saiga 308 bolt?
    U.S. Army (Ret)
    NRA for Life

  5. #215
    Gunco Regular Shadow Walker's Avatar
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    Saiga .308 bolts are in short supply. That is why I use a Bulgarian 5.45 bolt in my 7.62 NATO AK. Although I did have to open up the bolt face, and dremel the extractor a little.

  6. #216
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    The 308 Saiga bolt is a different design. A standard AK bolt may hold up to a bit of shooting, but it might not. When firearms are proof tested they are placed inside a steel container.

  7. #217
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Why not just get a Saiga 308 bolt?
    if I could fine any i would. they will not fit a standard trunion as they are slightly wider. Im pretty sure they could be modifed to work but I havent seen one for sale seperatly in 5 years. I have a 308 Sagia rifle that will eventualy be a 260 remington or 6.5 creedmore. I was looking at a 6.5-284 possable but it would take a bunch of mag work and other mods and its a barrel burner. To bad some one cant make some bolts for under $125.

    The 308 Saiga bolt is a different design. A standard AK bolt may hold up to a bit of shooting, but it might not. When firearms are proof tested they are placed inside a steel container.
    I tell you I have loaded the x39 pretty hot when working up loads. to the point of flat primers and cases flowing into the extractor hole. I have no idea of what the actual pressure is but its got to be pretty close to what a proof round would be. I not saying this means any thing and I am likely lucky some thing did not let go.

    I was up late last night looking at differant rounds and loads and pressures. I keep coming back to the 300 savage as a ideal load that would be safe in factory loadings.
    there are max loads for that round listed that will send a 125 gr bullet out the pipe at close to 3000 FPS with only 45,000 CUP! that is a 600 FPS advantage over the x39 at about the same pressure. the bot thrust is higher of course due to the larger case head but still if backed off slightly to say 2,800 and its going to be apples to apples in thrust.
    Im still convinced that the gains of a light loaded 308 win round kept with in reason with the added 500-600 fps increass in speed is well worth the work to do a conversion.

    a 308 loaded with a compressed load of 51.2 grs of 742 powder makes only 41,600 CUP and sends a 125 grain bullet out at 3034 FPS!!!!! that is a MAX load in the lyman book. that is a 700 FPS gain with less cup pressure than the x39 this is great deer round and the same gaains can be had with 150 GR bullets as well. I have been loading lighter than that so Im guessing my pressures are around 39,000. even starting load of the same powder gives a 300FPS gain and the pressure is only 29,500 CUP. That is very low possab ly to low to even cycle the gun with a normal gas port.

    There are huge gains to be made with more case capacity an a longer barrel. that is how the 30 RAR is making it happen but in a short fat case. I was staring at a 300 WSM and looking at the minimum loads and smiling last night how about a 150 grain at
    3000 FPS at only 50,000PSI or a 125 grain at over 3200 fps with about the same pressure and for big game a 200GR at 2600FPS at only 46,000 PSI That will stop any thing on the planet if done right deffenatly in north america.

    In a Saiga loaded to max 308 win pressures but with a 300WSM loaded to mimnumstarting loads and pressures I could get a 200 grainer going some were around 2700 fps. Id have to factor in the increased bolt thrust from the bigger case to be more exact but were talking huge gains. those WSSM cases are a option as well.

    with a AK bolt a slow long burn down a long pipe might be the safe answer. I really need one of those ballistic software programs to play with. my reloading book is starting to fall apart from all the use.

  8. #218
    Gunco Member us_dragunov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
    They first tried a two lug 308 design that wouldn't pass CIP proof testing.
    I would like to know where you heard that from. What are the sources for that information?

  9. #219
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by us_dragunov View Post
    I would like to know where you heard that from. What are the sources for that information?
    The Russians published it a long while ago, when the 308 rifles first came out. It was before I had the internet.

  10. #220
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I would like to know where you heard that from. What are the sources for that information?
    thats what I have read as well. i dont know the source but it makes sence that they would have not redesigned the bolt for know reason.

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