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Thread: 308 ak

  1. #221
    Gunco Member us_dragunov's Avatar
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    Well...I happen to talk to some of their designers and specifically mentioned this to them on a side note and they were very quick to correct me that the pressures were fine and that the reason they added that extra lug was to try and squeeze a little more accuracy out of the .308. I'll find out more on my next visit with them, but until I can see the actual "publication" and from what source...which I will ask them about and have them verify...I am going to remain skeptical. I have seen a few .308 builds that do just fine on hot handloads without a third lug. How many does the M76, PSL, .308 M90s have???

  2. #222
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    flat out ask them how much pressure a AK trunion is rated for or will proof test at. It would be the first thing Id ask if i ever met someone in the know

  3. #223
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by us_dragunov View Post
    Well...I happen to talk to some of their designers and specifically mentioned this to them on a side note and they were very quick to correct me that the pressures were fine and that the reason they added that extra lug was to try and squeeze a little more accuracy out of the .308. I'll find out more on my next visit with them, but until I can see the actual "publication" and from what source...which I will ask them about and have them verify...I am going to remain skeptical. I have seen a few .308 builds that do just fine on hot handloads without a third lug. How many does the M76, PSL, .308 M90s have???
    Those two lug models have heavy bolts. One of the design features of the AK is the bolt to bolt carrier weight ratio. Increasing the bolt weight with the same bolt carrier weight in theory would reduce reliability. The three lugs can't have anything to do with accuracy. The reason some bolt actions have three lugs is to reduce the size of the lugs so the bolt doesn't have to rotated as far as a two lug bolt with larger lugs. The increase in lugs in the AK is to handle more bolt trust from the larger cartridge.

    During the designing of the Beretta AR70 and Sig 540, both Beretta and Sig teamed up at first to design one rifle. The design team included two American engineers. The Americans wanted a multi lug bolt like the M16 because they claimed it was more reliable in design because the bolt didn't have to rotate as much as having larger bolt lugs. Both Sig and Beretta rejected the multi lug bolt design because they claimed it would hurt accuracy by not being able to always get even loads on all of the bolt lugs. They both went went to two lug bolts for "accuracy", because they felt even lug contact was possible with two bolt lugs. I would have rejected the mutli lug bolt due to not always being able to have even bolt lug contact, but my reason would be the strength would be weaker with higher bolt lug loads on less then all bolt lugs.

  4. #224
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Yea Im not really buying into the whole three unevenly spaced ligs are to help accuracy either. how ever i do wondder why they just didnt make a heavier two lug bolt and trunion????? if it was for accuracy reasns why do most 308 sagias I ahve seen shoot no better and usualy worse than two lug guns????

    Im hoping to get a good barrel On my 308 this winter Likely in a 6.5mm calibure and we will see if its better than my other stuff. I need to go talk to them russians myself LOL

  5. #225
    Gunco Member us_dragunov's Avatar
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    Well stay tuned guys...as I may be able to get a monthly or weekly Q&A post type of deal with some of THE guys...you guys could post a question or two that I take to them and then I come back and post their responses. They might think it as fun too. We'll start with the .308 bolt and WHY it has a third lug and HOW MUCH pressure can it and the trunnion take. I'll start a new thread and post this question and their answer after I talk with them. Sound good?

  6. #226
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    That would be really interesting. The first question is what presssures will a 7.62x39 bolt and trunion take before its unsafe. the second question is can they please send me 150 3 lug bolts for R&D. Third question is are they hiring because there is no work here and I can make there guns actulay hit something a 500 yards. Ill work for vodkia ))) yea I just got home from the bars. and its 3:42 AM LOL. and then what will a 3lug handel.. I want to do a short mag round maybe.

    If you could get a inside line to a Q&A session it would be really really interesting. what grade steels are used ect. that would a first in the US AK community.

  7. #227
    Gunco Member us_dragunov's Avatar
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    It shouldn't be too hard to setup. I think they will find it fun and interesting too. We'll see what they say though and if they are in I'll make it happen. By the way I think the average worker there makes about $500 per month.

  8. #228
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Its a shame there is no way to export Sagia or Vepr 3 lug bolts out of there. Is there any way to buy those parts seperatly over there????

  9. #229
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Well its almost christmas and I dont know what its going to end up as but my 9 year old is going to get aa big box of misc gun parts. The plan is were going to do a Father/Son build of a undecided calibure. the objective will be a light weight sporter that is carryable by a young hunter it will need light recoil but have at least 2600 FPS velocity with a 100 grain bullet or bigger and be 6mm or bigger. Im thinking a Yugo trunion with a opened up 5.45 bolt that will shoot some thing from the 308 Win line of brass. I have a remington 243 take off barrel as well as a 308 barrel. he is still pretty small so Im leaning toward the 243 loaded light. I have decided that i will not go over 49,000 PSI on the ammo with a two bolt trunion. I am thinking a longer than normal blank with a extended bolt will allow a large gloves on trigger guard. I want a push button saftey. Im thinking of a drop out trigger housing and some other cool ideas that I have had in the back of my mind. I have untill next thanksgiving to get it built and and get him shooting well enough shoot from a stand on white tail. Im not sure of the legalitys of a minor bending his own flat so ill have to look into it. I was actualy thinking of a multipul barrel assembly set up with a .223 varmit, 243, .30 an a .444 in a cool custom case that would cover all hunting scenerios he might find in the future. i really wish i had a 3 lug bolt for this build . Im thinking of making this as custom as possable with the finest work i can muster.

  10. #230
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    Its a shame there is no way to export Sagia or Vepr 3 lug bolts out of there. Is there any way to buy those parts seperatly over there????
    One problem is in most of Europe and other countries any gun part "exposed" to chamber pressure is controlled. The other problem would be selling parts that effect headspace usually aren't sold by commercial gun makers.

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