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Thread: 308 ak

  1. #301
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    The 308 Galil bolt is standard length with standard size lugs. It may be made of higher strength steel that regular AK bolts. The 308 Valmet and the 308 Yugo bolt use larger bolts. The 308 Galil bolt and maybe an RPK or PSL trunnion. The AKM trunnion would really be pushing things. THe PSL trunnion seems harder than most trunnions to me but it may be exactly the same. I haven't seen any factory 308 AK's use standard AKM trunnions and I have seen some of those fail in 7.62x39.

  2. #302
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I have several converted guns that shoot 308 or varients of with standard trunions. So far so good however I reload for all of them and I load tot he light side. .

    There have been reports of 308 Galil's failing. I have seen pics of a Galil bolt and I agree they look very close to a standard bolt but with a bigger face.

    IMOO and my opinion only a 5.45 bolt in a rpk,psl, m70 trunion is likely the strongestr combination the 5.45 bolt lugs are longer that has got to make them stronger IMOO .

    If I had the time, money and the parts Id love to do some improvised proof testing. Id like to see what a standard bolt and trunion can take before head space moves ir some thing lets go.

  3. #303
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    The Russian tried making 308 AK's with AK-74 type bolts and they failed to pass the CIP proof testing in Europe. CIP proof is 125 percent of the standard pressure limit. The Russians then changed the bolt design to the three lug bolt. The 308 Valmet and the Yugoslavian 308 AK both use longer and heavier bolts but they were both designed before the CIP proof testing was required for sales in Europe. Then there is the 8 mm M76 and now a 308 PSL. I have heard of the 308 Galil receivers cracking.

  4. #304
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I have heard of the 308 Galil receivers cracking.
    I read a story on threm years ago (possably internet BS) and it said there had been reports of 308 Galil bolts failing.

    I was not aware that the russians tried to use a AK74 type bolt in there testing. I have also heard the the three lug bolt was not due due to previous failures.
    I have also never seen any thing offical saying the 2 lug bolts failed CIP tests i have only heard stuff on forums.
    Do you have any thing that shows or proves that the two lug bolts faild CIP tests??? Id loe see some documintation other than what I always see in forums like this. Im not doubting you or any one else but Id like to see the source of the reports.

  5. #305
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    I read a story on threm years ago (possably internet BS) and it said there had been reports of 308 Galil bolts failing.

    I was not aware that the russians tried to use a AK74 type bolt in there testing. I have also heard the the three lug bolt was not due due to previous failures.
    I have also never seen any thing offical saying the 2 lug bolts failed CIP tests i have only heard stuff on forums.
    Do you have any thing that shows or proves that the two lug bolts faild CIP tests??? Id loe see some documintation other than what I always see in forums like this. Im not doubting you or any one else but Id like to see the source of the reports.
    I was told this before I had the internet. Before a certain date, CIP proof testing wasn't required to market firearms in Europe. I think 1989 or maybe 1991 or later. The story I got was the original Russian 308 design was with a two lug bolt which held up using normal ammunition but not the required proof testing. What helps support this story is the Saiga and Vepr were made by two competing Russian companies at the time. If it was just to improve accuracy, as some claim on the internet, I think the more expensive Vepr might have done it but not the cheaper Saiga and not both at exactly the same time. Three lug bolts aren't any more accurate than two lug bolts but they can spread the load over a wider area.

  6. #306
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I agree it makes no sence to go to a three lug for no reason. I havent done much work on a 3 lug yet to see if there are any accuracy gains to be made. I will be soon as I plan On doing some work on a 308. It seems there would be some documentation or credible sources that they did in fact fail proof testing. Its likely thewre is no documintation done in a non internet world back then.

    Id love to load up the 243 or do a 22-250 at full power but the 22-250 is around 64,000 PSI or so SAMMI maybe more. Im afraid That would be pushing it a lot. Im still going to do a fast twist 22-250 loaded light . it will still out do a 223 and allow me to shoot the heavy bullets and maybe not burn barrels as bad since its lightly loaded.
    I think if done right a 22-250 in a 308 mag will allow 85grain bullets to be seated fully out. If I can get 200 fps over a 223 with the same bullet it IMO be worth it.

    the next $64,000 question it what will a 308 saiga with stand. i really want to do a 6mm-284 on a 308 saiga but It will need to be able to handel full pressure loads to be better than a 243win on the same gun.

  7. #307
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    284 Winchester is a pretty fat case. I've seem 6.5mm-284 but for 6mm I would consider 6mm Remington. It is a short action cartridge due to the shortness of 6mm bullets and uses a 7mm Mauser / 257 Roberts case. It's 2.825 inches long and the 308 Winchester is 2.81 inches. That's a larger case than the 243 Winchester and a smaller diameter than the 284 Winchester case.

    6mm Remington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #308
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I have the original 6mm remington it was called a 244 Remington before they relized that the 243 win that could shoot 100 gr bullets was out selling it badly. Remington stopped selling it for a few years an then reintroduced it as a 6mm Remington with a faster twist to shoot 100 grain bullets. case and chamber remaned the same just a new name and twist changed. I killed my first buck with it around 1975. The gun was my Grandmothers (RIP) then. 1956 760 Remington pump. My son is hunting with it now.

    I want to do a 6.5x284. It should clear the lugs on a sagia trunion the rim is rebated to a fit a 308 bolt. I have the reamer and the dies. im trying to kill a Praire dog at over 1000 yards with a auto loader. and Im hoping this might be the combo on a 308 sagia. I expect to have to build a custom mag or mod one. Im not sure if as 6mm rem with the new long low drag bullets will fit in a 308 saiga mag. I can check. the 6mm remington is a close second in speed. to bad they dont make a Saiga in a WSSM LOL

    I dont know what a 308 Saiga can handle. Id hate to find out the hard way.

  9. #309
    Gunco Rookie ak310's Avatar
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    I know pookie made a svu 308/g3 mag ak with romanian G parts basically profile of yugo m70 bolt/trun. the yugo m77 308 bolt is 2 lug and i havent seen anything about it failing. all the pics i have seen the top lug is identical to the m70 bolt, the only big difference is the m76 is thicker face becauseit longer distance from mag.

    safety says to stay at the levels of max psi standard caliber the bolt was made for -- 51,500psi 762x39 and 55,100psi 545x39. a 11k-7k psi difference is a decent play with unknown variables of the standard akm/74 bolt/trun. it bothers that there is no info on this, and you never know until you test the bolts/trunnion lugs thresholds yourself.
    I would be tempted to build if it could at least handle off the shelf 308 win loading or 54r(if mosin takeoff could be sourced), video of the action and checking headspace/fatigue/cases after each rd if it makes it that far would be interesting.

  10. #310
    Gunco Member aloharover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    I dont know what a 308 Saiga can handle. Id hate to find out the hard way.
    I run my hot 175 SMKs through my Saiga 308 with out any issues. If I do my part I can get 1.5moa out of it. My AR308 is more of a .65-.70 with the same ammo.
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