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Thread: 8mm AK... how hard could it be??

  1. #31
    Gunco Regular grasshopper's Avatar
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    Default M76 Bolt

    This might help. Pictures of M76 8mm bolt
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  2. #32
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    Thanks! I've noticed that it's not so much that the lugs are that much bigger.. just the bolt head is longer so that the hole for the extractor take-down (or whatever you call it) is in front of the lug instead of through it/under it. I'm guessing that makes it stronger? Perhaps testing at the factory deemed it necessary??
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  3. #33
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I was only comparing prices, not time involved, and I know time is money. easy'r to do sure. persionaly If I had a 30-06 saiga I would not touch it. what would you gain? even max 8mm loads will not touch a 30-06 in the (150 -180 grain range) or a 308 for that matter my feeling is that you would be making a good gun worse by converting a saiga 30-06 to a 8MM. (just my opinion not a slam or a argument) to me the most compeling reason to do a conversion is the cheap Yugo kits with bad barrels (what else are you going to do with them) and the unqueness of a one off firearm. I am not saying a 8mm would not be cool as hell ,but I would still be asking why and what did you do with the barrel. If you are going to convert a Saiga to an assult style weapon there are those costs as well. Most of my builds start life as a pistol for hunting thats what got me into the AK, this also rules out starting with a saiga unless I want to replace reciver as well. a 8MM pistol using a 220 grain slug would sure knock the hell out of a white tail at 150 yards. another good site for load info is http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/857mmmau.php

  4. #34
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    grasshopper great pics can you post them on the 308 conversion forum as well? aside from the bolt face being opened up and I assume the longer length do you see any differances in the bolt lugs or other dimensions? thanks for the picks

  5. #35
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun
    I was only comparing prices, not time involved, and I know time is money. easy'r to do sure. persionaly If I had a 30-06 saiga I would not touch it. what would you gain? even max 8mm loads will not touch a 30-06 in the (150 -180 grain range) or a 308 for that matter my feeling is that you would be making a good gun worse by converting a saiga 30-06 to a 8MM. (just my opinion not a slam or a argument) to me the most compeling reason to do a conversion is the cheap Yugo kits with bad barrels (what else are you going to do with them) and the unqueness of a one off firearm. I am not saying a 8mm would not be cool as hell ,but I would still be asking why and what did you do with the barrel. If you are going to convert a Saiga to an assult style weapon there are those costs as well. Most of my builds start life as a pistol for hunting thats what got me into the AK, this also rules out starting with a saiga unless I want to replace reciver as well. a 8MM pistol using a 220 grain slug would sure knock the hell out of a white tail at 150 yards. another good site for load info is http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/857mmmau.php
    I hear ya.. doesn't make any sense to mess with a perfectly good rifle, does it. What got me thinking along those lines was that a Saiga is FAR cheaper than what they're asking for an M76 de-milled rifle these days... so I started to think about how I could do it. Re-barrel/fit mags. Cheapest while still being the easiest. If the picture of that 30-06 Saiga is accurate it looks like it may be on a milled reciever anyway.. so there's a monkey wrench in the works. Tell you what... if I knew for sure a standard M70 bolt would cut the mustard and not eventually fly apart on me.. I'd work with that for sure. What were the pressures on a 7.62x39 vs 8mm again??
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  6. #36
    Gunco Regular grasshopper's Avatar
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    Ok, More picture for you guys.
    Bolt comparison between M70 and M76
    The full length of M76 bolt is 106mm
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  7. #37
    GuncoHolic Templar's Avatar
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    I'm really, honestly, truely not trying to be a wet blanket but I honestly think you guys are asking for trouble trying to go from a 7.62x39mm to a .308 or 8mm. Much higher pressures and more powerful rounds and the Yugoslavians (and Russians and Israelies and Finns) came out with rifles specifically adapted to them.
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  8. #38
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar
    I'm really, honestly, truely not trying to be a wet blanket but I honestly think you guys are asking for trouble trying to go from a 7.62x39mm to a .308 or 8mm. Much higher pressures and more powerful rounds and the Yugoslavians (and Russians and Israelies and Finns) came out with rifles specifically adapted to them.
    I have to agree.

    Unless you are reloading your ammo with those lighter bullets, the CUP pressure is going to be pretty high (see my previous post).

    Most all of that cheap ammo is built for Mausers and/or some type of MG - both of which are heavier-duty platforms than an AK action.
    After looking at those CUP numbers, I don't like the idea of using cheap ammo in a 7.62x39 kit. I would only use hand loads on the light side. Most sites I visited imply the 8mm is regarded as 'close' to 30.06 on the hot side. Maybe converting a 30.06 Saiga would be the best?

    Reloading ammo would negate the main reason I would do t is - a *cheaper* alternative to the M76.
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  9. #39
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    hcpookie/templar...

    No worries about wet blankets.. it's just a conversation to satisfy some curiosity. Where do you think the failure is most likely to come from off an M70.. the bolt, trunnion.. all of the above? I guess what I want to know is.. .what part of the original 8mm rifles was specifically designed for it? My .308 Saiga front trunnion with only one bulge in it doesn't look nearly as beefed up as a standard M70 trunnion with two.. seems like the M70 trunnion could handle it. It looks as though the 8mm bolt and the M70 bolt are pretty close despite the longer bolt stem.
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  10. #40
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I belive the veper uses a rpk trunion in it's 308 version and as far as I can tell the yugo m70 trunions and the rpk are the same. If some one know's of a differance I would like to know. I have seen some reloading sites that show the 7.62x39 loaded up to 50,000 CUP pressures with no prolems http://www.ak-47.net/ammo/reload2.html & http://www.chuckhawks.com/7-62soviet.htm.
    http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/223rem.php In fact at over 51,000 cup the 223 is as high as a 308 or a 30-06. the m77 (308) and m76 (8mm) appear to use a m70 style trunion. a lot of this has been coverd in the 308 conversion forum that I started several monthes ago. Now I relize that chamber pressure and recoil are two different things and that a 8mm with a 200 grain bullet with only 39,000 cup is going to kick a hell of a lot harder than a 223. this is the force that works the reciver ,stock, rivits screws your shoulder ect. the chamber pressure is what works the bolt and trunion lugs. If I have this wrong let me know.. this is what let's me belive that a 308 or 8mm on a m70 stamped bulged trunion is safe. The milled version it thinner than the stamped m70 yet thicker than Yugo stamped.

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