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caliburs that may work in a AK mag

8K views 76 replies 12 participants last post by  [486] 
#1 ·
this site http://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/ruger_mini_prices.html has some cool pics and info on what works in the mini 14 & 30. the levithan round has me thinking. If they can make it work in a 223 mag should be doable in the AK mag. some of these do 3000 fps with a 6mm bullet. they also have some very nice barrels$$$ that may be adaptable.
 
#53 ·
Been working on the 45 win mag in my type III pieces parts gun. magazine and hunting season have delayed it. I cut the mag well for a double stack double feed custom mag but the shape of the cartridge is not conducive to this. I then took a m1 carbine mag and held in position by hand. Bang--if feeds every time. I just need to weld in some spacers and ream the chamber and it will be very close to running. I have plenty of brass.
As a side note Ive been hunting with my kimber 1911 in 45super. It drops deer at 40 yards like a hammer hits em, so the 45 win mag will be even better.

just thinking about it gets the blood flowing again, really need to finish it.


EDIT: I just stuck a few 45 win mag in a .223 sar mag. With a modified follower and feedramp and narrow the bottom of the bolt, I think these may work too. It feed 2 out of 3, the third pushed the round back into the case on the feed ramp.

the 357 auto mag
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=68
the 45 win mag
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=31
200gr@1929fps 12"bbl 1653 ftlbs energy..(max load)
the 450 bushy
http://ammoguide.com/?catid=628
NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight:
250 gr.
Muzzle Velocity:
2200 f.p.s.
Muzzle Energy:
2688 ft-lbs
 
#54 ·
there is also a .44/06 wildcat made from a cut down 30-06 or other simular brass. it has a case length of 1.285 and a loaded length of 1.161. its a little longer than the 45 win mag and uses the .430 pistol bullets the case capacity is 34.43 GR,S water almost identical to the 45 win mag that has 34.59. the advantage of it is you might have better luck finding a .430 barrel over a .458 barrel.
personaly I think it would be easier to just rebate a 444 MARLIN than to have to cut down 308 brass reform it then ream the ID to accept a .430 bullet.
the 444 marlin is basicaly a very long 44 mag with a rim. I suspose one could also trim it to 1.5" and then you would basicaly have a 450 bushmaster. since a AK can be made to handel a 2.60" round I am thinking that this would be the easiest route for me. Plus it will out do all the pistol round above.
I like the 45 win mag from the brass and ammo is factory avaliable but $$$$$
 
#56 ·
Alot of people make the mistake of thinking the 45 win mag is a 458, it's not, it's 451".. same as the 45acp, and barrells in that size are very common.
You are correct. I was thinking rifle bullets instead of pistol. my mistake.
that also means this 458 WIN magnum rifle barrel sitting here is not a canidate for any of these. the 44/06 is still an option for those wanting to use .430 bullets if the hapen to have a 44 mag barrel lying around
 
#60 ·
After looking at the 30 hrt I was thinking something simular could be done based on the 357 herret. it has a case length of 1.75". 30-30 brass would have to be rebated as the 6.8 spc is to short. just thinking here not sure if there is much to be gained.
a 357 rimless herret would be a good hunting round 125 GR bullets will do aprox 2550 FPS that is in a 14 inch barrel. the round could be made buy cutting 30-30 brass down and turning the rim off. loaded length is 2.06". that is .12"shorter than the 7.62x39 round. my book also shows loads with 180GR bullets doing 2135 FPS that would be a pretty good whitetail load especially from a 14" barrel'd pistol
 
#63 ·
those have all been discused on this site before. the 358 is one Id like to do. it may not fit the mag as well as you think due to the larger bullet not fitting the the narrowed area of the mag correctly. several guys my self are doing or have done 243's myself included. the 260 remington is another that I hope to do on a sagia 308. none of them will fit the standard ak mag except the SOCOM.
 
#64 ·
In my attempt to avoid hijacking the .308 AK thread I'll post here :D

The 1.5 Barnes looks REALLY appealing! Like a .30 Kurz :) I would prefer the Barnes for the simple fact that the .308 brass is immenently more available and easier to manipulate with existing dies.

That, and I have yet to see exactly HOW MUCH capacity gain you get by using .284 as the parent vs. 308. I'm guessing around 5% but that's a completely un-educated guess.

I had to look it up to verify, and in fact the .45 Bushmaster also uses the .284 as a parent cartridge. In a loose comparison to the .45 Winmag, it is 1.6" long vs. 1.2" long for the winmag - almost 1/2" longer. So there isn't an apples-to-apples comparison of the .45 Bushmaster capacity except perhaps in the .44?? wildcat.

I would be most interested to see apples-apples comparison for a cut-down .284 vs. .308 of the same size. I haven't scrounged any .284 brass from the range yet. ;)
 
#65 ·
the 30 AR uses cut down 284 brass with a weird rim size so a bushmater bolt cant be used. there is more case capacity than the 1.5x308 barnes (44 grains water VS 37.61) the x39 has only 33.98. the 308x1.5 barnes woulkd be in the middle. its a doable round for the AK no question. I started to collect the dies and stuff to do a build but just figured a regular 308 loaded light was just as good and a lot cheaper and easier.

.30 Remington AR

I hope the 30 AR and the bushmaster sells it wold make a great 6.5 or 6mm wildcat but id want to see the brass avaliable before I went that far. I applaud remington for introuducing the rounds but feart they will not support the round once the hype dies off and it becomes like the 6.8 SPC that remington dosent really support.
 
#66 ·
I don't know, I don't think the hype has "died off" on the 6.8SPC as much as you think.

My impression of the .30 is that they are trying to fit a .308 into a .223 frame and that's what they ended up with. That had better really perform well, because I'm still not sure what it offers that other cartridges don't already. And putting that much pressure into it seems like recoil would be more like a .308 than anything else?

What question is the .30 AR supposed to answer? :dunno: The *best* I can figure is that Remington is trying to emphasize their AR-15 as a hunting platform and developing a non-military cartridge for N.American game. I don't see why they just don't emphasize the .308 as a good all-around hunting cartridge.

A few good points from that article:
- same length as .223
- same parent case as .450 Bushmaster (.284) shortened to 1.530
- .30 AR is loaded to 55,000 psi (a bit higher than the .308 Winchester),
- Uses modified AR-10 bolt to fit the AR-15 upper.
- cartridge intended for hunting


Another interesting tidbit - for 450 Bushmaster, the article states the maximum chamber pressure is 38,000 psi, which is the same as the .30-30 Winchester.
 
#68 ·
they use a AR10 type barrel extension on the 30 AR. what would be nice is if some of the other manufatures would jump on the band wagon and make uppers that would shoot the 30AR as well and make bolts and uppers for the AR 15. If only remingtons overpriced hunting AR is avaliable in the 30AR then it will not survive. I can damm near buy a AR10 for the same money and then get a dozen differant caliburs for it.

I think remingtons main goal is to give the AR platform more of a PC friendly look and I think its a good idea. there are thousands of men in this country trained on the M16 and know how to shoot it. Remington had a pretty high stake in the AR as they own DPMS as well. if these get outlawed then they loose there ass.

the 30 AR is not really in the 308 win class but it gets close. its light bullet is the down side. the presssures are high so in a AK you might as well just build a 308 or 300 savage. what I want to see is the wildcats and factory rounds that can be made from it. A 6.5 in this case would be awsome.

the 6.8 SPC is not dead but there is already a second chamber and twist rate designed for it so now there are two differant types of ammo that should not be interchanged as the fast twist bumps up the pressure. This further complicates things and makes early guns less desirable. the 6.8 is in direct compitition with the 6.5 grendal. IMOO the grendal is a better round but with out big factory support an the SPC is slightly inferiour but has a big names behind it. I think remington stoped making bolt actions in it. If they havent I havent seen one on a rack in over a year. I have a barrel and will eventualy build one. like the 6.5 grenadal were the 260 remington out does it. the 7mm-08 out perfoms the 6.8SPC. In a AK, might as well just build a light loaded 7mm-08. the 7mm-08 is a great deer round BTW Im considering it for my sons first bolt action deer rifle.

the 450 bushmaster is loaded light IMOO it could be a much better round if it were loaded for a stronger gun. In a bolt action loaded to 50,000 PSI it would be a a awsome hunting round. they need to take the 30AR bolt and upper and make a 450 bushmaster that can handel some pressure. then make some rifle style bullets for it instead of the pistol bullets they use.

A 450 bush master in a AK would be a fun build. im still working on the 444???? that will do about every thing the 450 will do maybe more if I load it up to say 45,000 PSI :)

I was working on a simular wildcat when the bushmaster came out based on belted magnum rounds rebated sort of a short 458 barnes or 458 American cut down. I canceld the reamer order when the bushmaster came out.

To many projects no money.
 
#74 ·
Yeah that's up there near the 7.62x39 proof loads of (supposedly) 70,000!
factor in the 1/2" or bigger case head diamiter and the bolt thrust is way way over what the AK proof rounds can do. I honestly wonder how the AR,s are staying together??

Im not really up on the 6.8 SPC II stuff. My barrel is a remington that has first production stamped right into it. so Im pretty sure Id be stuck with the lighter loads. its a heavy varmit/target profile in stainless.

Im going to build it some day but it serves no new purpose my other hunting build wont do. its not going to out shoot my 223 on varmits and its wont beat my 308's on deer so it one of those hey its cool to have builds that gets a back seat. I try to have a specific purpose for my custom builds. the 6.8 would possably be a better hunting round than the 7.62x39 but like I said I already have a 308 AK.

right now Im focused on a 260 remington that will out do my 223 for long range varmits as well as deer. and the 444???? that will knock a deer ass over tea kettle out to 150 yards and not shoot into the next county if I miss. there is a 17-223 that will allow for light recoil to 300 yard varmit hunting that I am thinking my son can shoot pretty soon also. I also need to finish some 7.62x25,s for cheap plinking blasting and Id like to try a 17hmr and 22 LR blow back scratch build. unless I do some big bore monster like your 45-70 or even a big .50 Ill likely not be doing to much else untill the money situation changes.
 
#76 ·
I picked up a few cases from that and the rim end is near 5/8" in diameter! lotsa surface area there compared to the surface area on the bullet.
BTW to calculate the bolt thrust you use the inside of the case at the base. but that big case head diamiter is really goint to increase bolt thrust.

I was considering rebating the cases to work with a standard bolt but its just easier to use a 308 based round that is longet In a Ak. I rather have a longer round and have more mag Capacity.

the WSSM in 223 and 6mm are said to be barrel burners and browning chrome lines all there WSSM barrel. something the home builder cant really do.
 
#77 ·
Forgot that the case head was smaller inside the case... Whoops. Yeah, I'd go with a longer, smaller diameter round too. Beats a 5 round mag capacity. :lol:

I'd assume the .223 one would be a barrel burner, that is a ton of reduction in diameter, bound to be a lot of turbulence, and therefore the powder grains would more or less sandblast the throat, might be able to go to a 2 shouldered design to reduce the turbulence, but I dunno if it'd help... Maybe stellite lining for the first couple inches if it wouldn't kill accuracy.
 
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