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Thread: 260 REM AK Better than a Grendel

  1. #1
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Default 260 REM AK Better than a Grendel

    AT 50 cents a round for crappy Wolf AMMO there is no great reason to to get excited abought a grendal build. 308 WIN length rounds can be made to fit in a AK reciver so I am starting to think about skiping the the grendal and likely would not have started a 6.8 SPC except I have the barrel. the 243,260 REM, 7mm-08, 308. 338-08 and all the other wild cats made from the 308 WIN and the 22-250 can be made to work and they will all out perform the 6.5 grendal in one way or another If you want a 6.5MM AK why not a 260 REM that goes 300fps faster than the grendal. It seems that myself and others get a little side tracked building AK guns for all the new rounds that are coming out that are designed to fit the AR15 limited mag well. The AK does not have these restrictions so why not just step it up??? I spent months planing a 308x1.5" barnes build when I could have more easly done a 308 WIN that way out performs the smaller rounds. Why was I was I trying to stuff grendal rounds into a mag that cost $45 when I could mod a G3 mag for $2.oo and have increased performance with a 260 REM?? I really wish I had bought more fixed stock Yugos Kits!!!!
    Every round I have mentioned has puplished loads listed that are all under 50,000 CUP, most even lower. there is a 22-250 load that pushes a 40 grain bullet at 3709 FPS and only makes 39,400 CUP (way way under what a 7.62 round puts out!) Makes me rethinkmy 223 varmit build as not being so hot.
    starting loads for the 260 REM are 3100 PSI (not CUP) this is way under an AK round. I am starting to think of a long range 260 remington shooting those streamlined 6.5mm bullets loaded to around 49,000 CUP as my next build. And a 22-250 is going to be a must

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    tired of idiots vz58's Avatar
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    The fact that the case base diameter is the same on the grendel and it fits a modded 74 mag is nice.
    Sure i can spin the bolt in the lathe and open the bolt face but many cant.
    I need to pull out a hk mag and look, does it clear the center support?

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    Gunco Member Hawkeye Mole's Avatar
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    There are a multitude of caliber options for AR's, and many of them look great in the magazine articles. I've made a list of the increasingly available AR15/AR10 calibers, compared strength's and weaknesses, and decided to do nothing. I like the .308 round for an AR10 type rifle and don't need the long range balistics improvement of some of the cool caliber mods because I'm just not a gnats ass shooter. The .223 is a quesionable round, but I'm not exactly engaging hostile forces in Virginia Beach (when I get home). If I need some extra loving I'll hand load some higher grain .224 bullets. Less caliber types = good in my book. Something like the .50 Beowolf looks like fun, but not fun enough for me to add another caliber requiring stockpiled rounds/reloading dies/reloading components, etc.

  4. #4
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    THe center support will need to be moved back and the hammer notched. to make the 308 based rounds fit. as well as turning/opening the bolt . and cutom rail/ejector. Granted these mods are not for the novice. the bolt can be opend up with a a end mill in a drill press and the rest is pretty basic stuff if you really think about it. The main reason I build custom AK,s is the fun making somthing from a cheap pile of parts.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Biggun I think you've fallen victim to the allure of the dark side - the pursuit of "The Cartridge" in a sea of a bazzillion calibers that all serve a different purpose.


    A few comments on the design -

    Bolts - Look at my .308 build - bolt can be opened up very easily, and after doing it, it is my not-so-humble opinion that one can do it with a dremel and metal cutting bit. You don't really need to remove that much material from the bolt face for a .308! Chuck it up in the drill press, or a drill with the trigger locked "on", and dremel it to fit. "Done".



    Magazines - Again, look at my .308 build about G3 mags. It was BattleRifleG3 and someone else... coffee isn't working yet. They made their G3 mags work in a Saiga 308, albeit with an adapter. That may or may not be a good idea, depending on your design goals. A FAL magazine can work as well. As can an M14 magainze.

    Any magazine mod is going to require you to either spot weld or braze a magazine locking lug to the mags.

    You'll need to change the ejector location on the rails, or simply make a new rail (much easier - trust me). You'll also need to modify the top cover to handle the longer cartridges. Sure, the center support will need to be relocated and that means modifying either the location of the trigger group or cutting on the hammer. Cutting the hammer is easier.

    One could just use a PSL/ROMAK design and avoid a great deal of these issues. FAL magazines would give you a potential BHO option too, but I haven't looked at that very closely.



    Honestly, I am thinking that a 6mm PPC or 6.5mm x 39 (the "other" 6.5 round) is going to be something I do. I don't konw what you mean about "crappy Wolf 6.5"... I read that it was actually Privi Partisan ammunition under the Wolf label, complete with Boxer-primed brass. I have scans of the article somewhere, and I think I first saw them on AKFORUM.NET. It was a while ago.


    I do think that many of these other "medium-sized" cartridges are well within the limits of what an AK action can do. Anything above .30 in size and you're getting into some pretty big rounds. Now, if I were to go with a bigger round, I would have to say that I'd start with a Saiga .308 or even a .30-06 and build it up. $400 is a cheap price to pay for the rifle AND the peace of mind that the heavier action will hold up better with the bigger rounds. At least, those rounds that are equivalent to the pressures the parent round creates... another thought are these WSSM rounds but I haven't looked too closely at their pressures.

    Another one I'm looking at is this new .450 "Thumper" that Hornady and Bushmaster are promoting. I would like to compare ballistics on them vs. a .50 low-power round like the Beowulf or that other one.

    So many rounds, so few kits...
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    tired of idiots vz58's Avatar
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    hcpookie, I had looked at the 6.5 ak but couldn't find dies. You have anything on this round?

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    I think I saw them on that tool place that has 5.45 dies.

    ETA: YES I found them - to avoid thread hijack, I will open a new thread.
    Gunco Member #10

    http://pookieweb.net


    The "original" Boltcutter Rivet Squeezers:
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    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

  8. #8
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I don't konw what you mean about "crappy Wolf 6.5"...
    Ok ill admit I havent done any home work on the brass cassed ammo. and It may be the best in the world I have no first hand knowledge on it. But a 260 remington will still be a better round in every way.

    I plan on doing my 308 and other simular round on yugo kits. which is one of the reasons I havent got to it yet, is I have to buy or make a straight stock yugo reciver. if I go with a manufactured reciver i will have to remove the exsiting rail somethinjg I dont want to do. I have been meaning to call and find out if I could buy a reciver minus the rails. I wish someone had a fixed stock blank for the yugo.
    I actualy have a 308 barrel turned and pressed into a trunion and the bolt opend up. I used a metric end mill to open the bolt on the mill took 15 minutes. I have a bunch of g3 mags to play with but am starting to think the FAL mag is a better way to go as it guides the round to the center more. and is narrower requiring less trunion modification. It has been sitting for a year and a half due to other projects and racing.
    As far as the 6.5x39 info high jack away its about time there was some activity on this forum.
    I am looking at the 450 Bushmaster round as well. one reason is many states require straight wall cases to hunt in the pistol only zones. and it is straight basicaly a 284 WIN round cut down to around 1.5" I actually put my 458x1.5 barnes reamer order on hold due to this round. the 458 socom is a necked design. the 50 beowulf would work but the ammo is way to pricy and reamers are proprietary.

    Biggun I think you've fallen victim to the allure of the dark side
    You have no idea.I have barrels for 17 REM, 17-223, 19-223, 20 tatical, 204 ruger, several 223,s 22-250, 243, 6.5mm blank, 6.8 spc stainless varmit, 7mm blank, 308, 30-06(plan to rechamber to a match chamber 7.62x39 or 308x1.5 barnes) 8mm mauser, 9mm pistol, 458 win mag (want to rechamber into something). I love to shoot varmits with the little stuff and my ak pistol is a deer killing machine but there always seems to be a better round out there. I get great satifaction from hitting small objects at 500+ yard with a home made gun with a sheet metal reciver.

  9. #9
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    AFAIK the way to get a fixed stock Yugo is with a ColdSteel Solutions 80%.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Gunter I will check that out I never considerd 80% bent blank. makes sence as I need to redrill most of the holes any way. I have a beed roller I have been meaning to try to use on some standard tapco blanks and see if I can mace my own trunion bulges as well.

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