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Thread: Resizing for PPC

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Default Resizing for PPC

    2 questions. First, I am looking closely at 6mm PPC brass for my 9x39 project. It has all the attributes I need in a case, and it will save me fire-forming the brass, which to me is too costly and time-consuming to justify. Thinking about it, my 9x39 could be described as a 9mm PPC due to the case design and heritage (based on Russian 7.62x39 cartridge). The PPC gives me greater powder capacity since it is wider at the shoulder. If this works, it will provide a relatively affordable source of brass for my project. I was looking at 6.5 Grendel brass but it is more expensive than the 6mm PPC I've found. It would be better because it is already .5 mm closer to 9mm, meaning less stretch on the mouth. I really don't think 6mm > 9mm will be an issue for me.

    I have found a "case resizing die" but I don't understand it. Here it is:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...589&t=11082005

    Does this resize the case to be WIDER at the shoulder? Or does it resize the mouth from .311 to 6mm/243 size? The description implies it resizes the case, but I can't see that in my mind. Does it force a ram down the mouth to straight-wall the brass, then size the neck?

    Can someone explain how I would go about sizing the tapered 7.62x39 cartridge to the straight-wall 6mm PPC size WITHOUT fire-forming the brass?





    Second Question. 6mm PPC brass sources. I've found this source for $40/100 and I'm wondering if it may be found cheaper someplace else:

    http://www.ssarmory.com/6mmppcusanon...ses100bag.aspx

    Any other sources?

  2. #2
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HC the resizing die is going to neck down the 7.62 and straighten out the taper to a close to 6mm PPC it is a step before the Full length resizing with a standard 6mm PPC die. IT is not going to straighten out the case to the end It is going the wrong way as far as trying to get to a 9mm neck. ths would only be usefull if you were trying to make the 7.62 into a 6mm PPC

    That is a great price on the 6mm brass not sure why it will not fit a PPC bench rest chamber. this has really got me thinking of doing a 6mm PPC varmit build.I am going to see what the deal with why it wont fit. likly it is not necked to final size or final sized but really good price the same. high quality PPC brass is close to a $1.00 a round.

    I would start with that 6mm PPC brass and expand the neck to 9mm with a taperd expander. this is basicaly a taperd rod that gradually opens up the mouth you would then use your FL die to get it to the proper sizing you may have to aneal the cses first. DO YOU HAVE A DIE ALREADY MADE FOR THIS?? Fire forming is not that tough and there are guys that fire form right in the dies with the decaping pin removed, with a set up that uses a spring loaded pin that screws right onto the die itsself. there is a good description in my making cartridge conversion book. you dont need to fire a bullet down the barrel many use a light powder charge and some cream of weat to build up the pressure. IF you dont have a die made up yet I would consider a 308 win case cut down to 1.5" and then necked to 9mm. this would be more like a 9mm benchrest round or like a 308x1.5 barnes that i have mentioned before but opend up to 9MM it would have even more capacity than the PPC round.
    you can by a lot of primers and powder for what the forming die costs + if you fire form you can simply use the AK brass. I have been lurking in on some of the reloding sites and bench rest sights and there is a lot of wildcating info there.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. That's what I thought too, but why would they advertise this specific die as a separate product.

    FYI, I have no intention of fire forming in principle simply because it will consume powder, primers, and time. All of which are costly to the point that it would dissuade me from doing so.

    Reloading dies are forthcoming. There are a few die-related things I'm working on right now.

    I'm resisting the urge to use .308/.30-06 cases which would warrant modification of the rifle bolt to use. The 7.62x39/PPC design is after all the original parent cartridge that I'm imitating...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun
    not sure why it will not fit a PPC bench rest chamber
    The BR brass is sized from .308 so the bolt may not hold it. PPC appears significantly shorter than PPC, so PPC would physically fit in the BR chamber, but it would be too loose to function. Pretty sure on that.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I took it to mean that it will not fit in a 6mm PPC chamber on a rifle designed for benchrest compeiton. there is no way that a 308 based shell would reduce in size at the rim/back of the case as it is a bigger OD to PPC sizes. most bench rest shooters use chambers on the very tight side and usualy slightly shorter than the true PPC spec case. they usualy require the necks to be turned. if you look at reamer options there are a lot of variables and about 4 differant neck sizes from having to turn to being several thou larger. 6MM PPC rules bench rest compititon right now and it is arugably the most accurate cartrage ever developed.
    unless it means dont try to shot it in a 6mm BR but the stuff below says its for bench rest??? strange way to advertise. I may try call silver state and get a answer as to what it is exactly. there is also a 6mm PPC USA and A 6mmPPC LUPA if I recall correctly

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    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    A "case-forming" die will always be separate from normal sizing dies.

    The case-forming die might have a hardened top, to allow brass that is too long and sticking out of the die to be trimmed by a file without harming the die.

    It might set the shoulder back a bit further than a standard die, to allow the brass to fit a candidate chamber for fire-forming.

    It might even swage the body or head smaller.

    The case-forming dies are definitely different from a standard die.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I bought 308x1.5 barnes forming die it also is a length die that allows me to cut and file against the top of the die. it is a step before final FL sizing.
    HC you need some thing like this. it is really just a taperd rod in a die. you can make one from a decaping rod out of any 9mm die set

    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jesse9...forneckturning

    you need a couple differant sizes and gradualy work your way up to just slightly larger than your bullet then FL size in what ever dies you decide on. I think the 6MM PPC is a very good idea as it will give you the shoulder you are looking for. I would start with new 6mmPPC brass and go from there.
    I really recomend you get a copy of the hand loadrs manual of cartridge conversions. it cover a lot of what you need to do. I have seen them on the amizon used book section in the past at a reasonable price. IT has almost every round evr concived in it with specs.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Gunco Veteran Lt762x39's Avatar
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    I love this place you guys hook me up with all kinds of cool info, thanks guys

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    Gunco Member FordGalaxy's Avatar
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    Case forming is a cake walk Pookie. I make .222 brass from .223 I pick up and my little bro makes 7mm tcu from the ones he beats me to. And fire forming is a blast because its a reason to go to the range. Just think of the cases you are fire forming as plinking loads, you'd be surprised how consistant and accurate they are.

    necking up from 5.56 to 7mm uses more of a foot ball shape than a taper, its easier getting it back out of the case once you get it in.

    7.62 to 9mm is going to be easier than one of the smaller ppcs. Other issues are the more you stretch the brass the thinner it gets, the more it work hardens and the more its likely to crack in the process. Going from 6 or 6.8mm to 9mm you may have to do it in steps to keep from crushing the neck into the case.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    I looked on the RCBS website and the case forming dies ARE different than standard reloading dies. At > $350 I don't want one, but I'm curious how they expand the tapered 7.62x39 to the straight-walled PPC. "Things that make you go HRM"

    The best I can figure, they expand the entire case out to the PPC wall then neck size the case normally.

    Or these are meant for "fire forming" while on the reloading press. Someone said you could do that but I don't want to "waste" all that powder... fun or not

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