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Thread: 444 marlin

  1. #11
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Dont look good for getting Levereloution bullets any time soon. to bad this would have really made my build come alive.

    https://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=417

  2. #12
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Default a few thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    the 30-06 brass hopefully will work out otherwise I will have to trim off the rim and cut a new groove on standard 444 brass, some thing I dont want to do. I want this to be something that can be built on a standard kit with a cheap mag and inexpensive brass.
    If you can do it with .06 brass then you're set! It will be the BIGGUN 44 Automag LONG +P+... BG444AM+P+

    What is wrong with .444 brass? Rimmed? Don't let that bother you. Rimmed is actually not that difficult with single-stack mags and a barrel breech that is contoured like a PSL to mate with the bolt. Get a PSL bolt/bolt carrier combo from TN guns and go to it.

    this is likely going to require a special reamer. I have been wondering if a standard reamer and using longer brass would work possably.
    I doubt it, because the .444 is a slightly tapered round. You'd have to have a tapered reamer to match.

    Ditto for dies.

    Now another thought - the Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions (HMCC) indicates there is a .44/06 cartridge, which is *EXACTLY* what it sounds like - 30.06 brass necked out for a .44 round. The description suggests a .44 mag die set could be used. Something to think about! Case length = 1.285. A little shorter than the .44 Automag but you get the idea.

    Another off the wall idea is to look at those magnum rounds like the .458 Winchester, .300 Remington Ultra Mag, etc. and see what you can get with them. Remove the belt, neck up/down, and presto a rimless cartridge with higher capacity than the .444, meaning even better performance. The advantage to doing something like that is that it will perform better, and you could rebate the rim like on a .50 Beowulf. If you are going to remove the rim on .444 brass, you may as well go all out! Rebate it down to 7.62x54R size and use a Yugo/RPK trunion + PSL bolt combo like I'm doing. That will enable you up to 50,000 CUP pressures.

    Mate that with a .30-06 BAR or 8mm magazine, and you'll have a 15-round


    I suspect that I may have to crimp to keep the bullets in place under recoil. The lee factory crimp die is cheap and does not do a role crimp but more of a multi demple crimp like you see on factory commercial ammo. I think this will work well because it still leaves a sharp edge at the case mouth that is needed for more sure head spacing.
    Did you know that most die sets have a crimping function built into them? At least Hornady and RCBS dies have it. You have to tweak the body of the bullet seating die so that it touches the end of the brass, THEN you adjust the bullet seating cup down into that, so it seats the bullet inside the brass, then crimps it at the end of the stroke. Trial-and-error to get right, but it can save you some effort with the Lee stuff. I have the Lee stuff and use it, but I'm going to start testing the built-in crimping capability.

  3. #13
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Another off the wall idea is to look at those magnum rounds like the .458 Winchester
    Not off the wall at all! in fact been done and even factry loaded the 458x2 barnes/ 458 american an the 458x1.5 that I have mentiond on other threads are both cut down magnum brass. I was actually ready to order a 458x1.5 reamer and use rebated brass when the 450bushmaster came out. I have since decided to use longer brass since the AK can be made to work with it (NO AR 15 MAG LENGTH RESTRICTIONS FOR ME) the reason for the non rimed 444 marlin was simple $$$$$$$ cheap die set, cheap 30-06 brass, cheap G3 or FAL mag and the ability to use a slightly modified standard bolt + my round will hold more powder than a 450 busmaster. The 458x2 is very simular to the 450 marlin - the rim and is loaded very simularly to to your 45-70

    What is wrong with .444 brass? Rimmed? Don't let that bother you. Rimmed is actually not that difficult with single-stack mags and a barrel breech that is contoured like a PSL to mate with the bolt. Get a PSL bolt/bolt carrier combo from TN guns and go to it.
    Nothing wrong with using a rim it is the cost of the bolt that is a issue. IF I cant make the non rimmed round work I will rebarrel a sagia 410 to rimmed 444 marlin and all the stuff I have bought will work.
    To be honest 410 sagias can be picked up for around $200 or less so it might be cheaper to just canablize one of those instead of using the PSL bolt?
    I also want to do a bolt action in 444+SUPER+ AUTO MAG HELLS GATE KNOCKER++ LOL and a standard 30-06 bolt bace will not work with the rim. one of these is going to be a 444 pistol so I need to start off with a virgen reciver.

    I doubt it, because the .444 is a slightly tapered round. You'd have to have a tapered reamer to match.
    I was refering to using a standard 444 MARLIN reamer not a standard straight reamer. I am afraid that the 444 marlin reamer will have to much free bore and or a sharp enough lip to allow proper chambering. I may need a reamer with a sharp edge at the end of the chamber and that edge needs to be closer to the breach so my brass can reach it OR I may be able to use slightly longer brass??

    Did you know that most die sets have a crimping function built into them
    ?

    YES and it may be all I need not sure yet.. I just noticed that the lee factry crimp die sems to leave segments of the rim un crimped and thought it might make head spacing easier, as ther would be a thicker rim to hit the end of the chamber.

    I picked up some hornady 265 grain jacketed flat nose bullets today (not cheap) I hope to start trying to form some brass soon. I am looking for a 444 MARLIN REAMER if any one has one??? This should be a fun project with a lot of learning in the wildcating DEPT.

  4. #14
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I got my barrel blank the other day it came from NUMRICH it is a 20.5" rough blank in around a 1-20 twist. Rough is the key word with the blank , the bore looks nice but it is not centerd in the blank!! this thing is going to take a lot of work to make it true. I will have to turn it on centers and drive it with a DOG. I am commited to at least tryng to build a 444 rimless. ( I will come up with a cool name for it latter) this will be a project that will be down the road some. still need a 444 marlin reamer.

    I have also started looking into a rimless .375 EXPRESS (waters) this should be doable on cut down & necked up 30-06 brass and would have a neck to head space on. it is basically a necked down 444 marlin has a lot better bullet selection.

  5. #15
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    there are several wild cats based on necked down 444 marlin brass. The .375 & .411 JDJ and the.375 EXPRESS (WATERS) are all made from necked down 444 Marlin brass. I think cut down 30-06 brass can be formed to make a rimless version of these. A shorter version that would fit a AK/AR mag would be a great round also IMOA.

    I got a new computer and hope to be able to post pictures soon of some prototypes im working on as well

  6. #16
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I added this to this thread form the 44??? link hope thats ok??

    Yeah...I asked him to try some of the Hornady bullets and he said he did, but only in the 4 round magazines and they fed fine. He also said he loaded up some 300 gr bullets that were pretty long and they fed fine out of the 10 round mag. I'm not stuck on a bigger round....jI ust prefer one that I don't HAVE TO reload for.

    Here are the links:
    Tromix 444 Marlin Project Has Been Scrapped. - forum.Saiga-12.com
    .375 versus .444 Marlin (pic) - forum.Saiga-12.com

  7. #17
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Id like to still build one in a full length 444 but rimless. I have been looking for a 308 sagia to convert.

  8. #18
    Gunco Member us_dragunov's Avatar
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    I too want to build one, but in .444 Marlin. Something like I stated before.....that I don't HAVE to reload for. I communicated with Tony again recently and he told me this about the conversion and he gave me a little more info on how to do it. We'll see...first I need to scrounge up a few Saiga-410s.

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