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Thread: Loading the 7.62x39 with other bullets?

  1. #11
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    I finally had some alone time to get some rounds loaded. Winchester brass, AA1680, and CCI primers.

    First test was the 123gr .310 Speer SP. I'm not going to list the load as some sites are real picky about posting X grains of whatever. If you have the Loadbook I used the starting load for that bullet and 1680. It cycled the action fine, but the cases were dented bad. The mouths were D shaped instead of O. Next was .5 grain higher and the cases look fine....as well as can be expected from an AK. No more dents. So this will be my starting load to work up from.

    Then I loaded a couple of the 150gr .311 Speer SP. I started a little higher than the starting load listed in the book for that bullet and 1680, but well below the max load. Again it cycled the action, but the cases have a very sharp little V shape in the case mouth. So it looks like I will need to work with this one to get a starting load that doesn't destroy the case.

    I dug one of each of the bullets out and found that the lead had detached from the copper on the 123gr. It had peeled the jacket back to the cannelure. The 150gr remained intact and had a nice mushroom.

    Of course this is with my rifle and yours might not act the same, mileage may vary, etc......

  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    WHAT IS CAUSING THE DENTS?? AND WHY IS GOING UP A LITTLE ON THE POWDER STOPING IT??? I am getting dents on my 223 varmit build and it needs to be rectifed or it is going to get $$$$ to feed it. IT the dent from the carrier coming back on it or some thing? I am loading to about the max. s(started piercing primers droped back a grain) so going up is not a option. I havent had time to investigate it much. but I have aprox 500 rounds that are dented in the middel of the shell. probably ok to resize and shoot but I doubt the accuracy will be as good

  3. #13
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    I was surprised that changing the charge by .5 grain made a difference in the case mouth dent. From looking at the slo-mo AK footage I posted at the other place, it looks like the case is flipped into the carrier or carrier handle. I guess it is causing the case to hit in a different spot. I did notice that the .5 grain hotter load did have a scraped looking spot a little below the shoulder that the starting loads did not. Maybe going hotter will change the scrape into a dent in the side of the case. All of the test rounds were throwing brass 15-20 feet just like an AK should.

    That Winchester brass seems to be pretty soft stuff.





    You can just barely make out the case with it's mouth facing up and back in the pic below.

  4. #14
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    VERY VERY INTERESTING. I have the minimum useable gas port diamiter. I wonder if inlarging the port would have the same effect as increasing the powder charge?? I do know that my starting loads will not always eject. HMM HMM. My 7.62x39 loads dont seem to have any problems(only the 223) with brass and the PMC factory ammo has been OK as well. Thanks for the picks. It does look like the case is fliping back into the carrier and causing the dent.

  5. #15
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    If you have a load and rifle that works well for you, then I wouldn't change anything. I really do not know if there is any way to stop the case from flipping into the carrier and still have the action cycle. I guess you could fire form the cases to remove the dent, but that would add another firing to the case count.

  6. #16
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    the problem is that when you are shooting 400+ yards or more even the slightest change in the case will make a differance. I wonder if the saiga 223 and WASR,s 223 do the same thing. I need to be able to reload or it is not worth using an AK for what I do. the yearly cost of ammo far excedes the cost of the gun, so the price of brass is a major factor.
    I have had very good luck with the 7.62 x 39 loads in the LYMAN book using the winchester powder at just under the Max load with hornady soft points. .75"-1.5" groups with a 12" barrel

  7. #17
    Gunco Veteran Lt762x39's Avatar
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    Gunter,

    Thanks for posting the info. I do have a question about Silencer talk though. I tried to register and they told me my e-mail address is banned. I don't get it since I have never been there until today

  8. #18
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    Your not alone. I tried to get on it said I wasn't registered when I was there the day before. After registering again they said that they have had a problem with spambots, so a lot of accounts had been purged. Here's what they have on the site:

    "I switched to manually activating people. Even though over 100 spam-bots have been blocked since yesterday, about 10 were still able to register some how.

    Also sorry, I blocked some free email domains such as hotmail, yahoo, gmail. This was not an easy decision to make, but after looking at the 100+ spambots that were blocked, I saw a pattern in what email addresses they use and blocked some of the ones that were used over and over. I apologize for real people who don't want to use their work email and only have hotmail or something at home. What you can do is register with a non-slum email and then change it later after you get activated."

  9. #19
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't get wrapped around the axle for dented cases since so many have answered that the cases don't affect functionality.

    That said, I haven't tried precision long-range shooting my Saiga. Yet. I simply don't have a long range to try it out. Now of course, my 9x39 brass will be something I'm very interested in preserving.



    A few thoughts to avoid dents. The impact to the top cover is what makes the dents in the first place. Here are a few ways I can think of to avoid this impact:



    - Valmets have a buffer that fits on the edge of the top cover. A VERY EXPENSIVE factory part (around $45 from RobertRTG.com), but perhaps a good investment for this application. I think it was Rhino that posted you can use a piece of rubber weather stripping or tubing to fit along the impact area and get the same results for just a few pennies.



    - Remove the top cover... use a brass catcher? I have been thinking about a brass catcher. I don't like the snap-on styles because they restrict operation too much to be effective. I've been toying with the idea of buying a spare top cover and cutting out the ejection area enough to have a wire frame permanently attached to the cover - probably silver soldered or spot welded - and attaching a net-style basket to the wire frame. It would be ugly, but it would work.



    - Reshape the ejector. Most ejectors send the brass to the approximate 4 o'clock position. You *could* MIG weld a big bead onto the ejector and dremel it to a different shape to make the brass eject in a different direction. Note that you WILL impart enough heat onto the ejector that you may discolor the paint and/or bluing on the receiver. Which may be a big deterent unless you don't mind the potential need to refinish the receiver.

    I have reshaped the ejector on my Yugo and it ejects the brass forward to about the 2 o'clock position. So when it DOES cycle (which is still not 100%), the Yugo spits the brass forward enough that I have to go hunt for the brass in front of the table (when the range is cold). I have watched this PPC shooter set up a mosquito net blind around his shooting station and the brass is caught in the net every time. He also uses a milk crate on its side, which is a very simple and effective method to keep from hunting down brass.



    - Trim the top cover & repaint it. I wouldn't really do this unless I was at my wits end, because it just wouldn't look good no matter what. And since the factory cover has a bead rolled on the edge, you would probably cut your hand quite often unless you rolled a new bead. And who has a bead roller???

    I trimmed the top cover on my 308 build because the brass was too long for a standard x39 top cover. I may actually do this on my 9x39 build and try to bend a bead onto the new edge by repeated heating and bending.



    That's all I can think of right now. Personally I think reshaping the ejector is the most elegant way to redirect the brass.
    Gunco Member #10

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  10. #20
    Gunco Veteran Lt762x39's Avatar
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    Pookie,


    I would not run W/O a top cover just for your protection "just in case" some thing were to go wrong. I used to have a 22 bolt gun that with one brand of ammo always spit little chuncks into my cheek. This was something that I noticed hunting tree rats. I finished out thte box with safety glasses on. Just want to see ya on the board till we're all old an grey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Gunter thanks for the heads up on the site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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