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Thread: Not quite "intermediate" - .45-70 conversion?

  1. #21
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    I don't know, but I am not resizing the 45-70 brass from anything, I'm just buying factory brass. I'm considering an MG13 magazine or perhaps a Bren or CETME. A new follower is almost certainly going to be needed...
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  2. #22
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    OAL

    30.06=3.340
    444=2.570
    45-70=2.550

  3. #23
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    but (>>>>turning blue in the face<<<<) the 45 win mag is not .458" its .451" same as 45-70 same as 45 acp...[
    QUOTE][/QUOTE]

    Im pretty sure the 45-70 uses a .458 rifle bullet not a .451 bullet. at least all the books I have show it that way. Im I missing something???

    HC some were I read that a 410 sagia mag will NOT work with 45-70 and that a 20 guage sagia was a better fit. I will try to find that link. I have a 3" 410 sagia if I can find some 45-70 ammo I will try to check it out.
    I am followning along on this 45-70 build. were are the bolts avaliable for this build??????????
    Iwill try to keep the 444 marlin stuff to the other link.

  4. #24
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Why not just use that .458 barrel for a .458 SOCOM?


    According to Hornady, the 45 Wincheseter Magnum is "essentially an elongated 45 Automatic." It uses .451 bullets, not .458. Hornady's reloading suggestions are for the 200 gr, 250 gr, and 300 gr bullets.

    .45-70 uses .458" bullets. Again, according to Hornady #7.





    Now, about that magazine...

    I looked very closely at an M-14 magazine today at the gun show. No dice. The rear section is open (where the BHO activator sits) and the .45-70 rim would have issues with that. I think the MG-13 magazine is the same, not really sure. I'm still leaning toward Bren magazines, or G3/FAL mags with a new follower. This is going to need a new follower no matter what. The normal followers for the bottleneck cartridge design cause the straight-wall rounds of the .45-70 to tip the follower and cause feeding issues.



    Bolts - I'm going to use a PSL rimmed bolt and trunion, and open up the bolt to .602" for the .45-70 rim. According to Hodgdon, the 7.62x54R CUP pressure is 46k, the MAXIMUM heaviest pressure I can find for .45-70 is 50k. 4,000 CUP difference. That is right on the line and I doubt I'd use that particular load. The other loads are right in the 40k range, so I should be OK as far as safety is concerned. I'm surprised to see the highest pressure is with a 350gr bullet, and the 500 grain bullet is less pressure. 500 grains!
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  5. #25
    Master Endmill Breaker Rhino_66's Avatar
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    Here are a couple comparison pics between the FAL, G3, and Bren mags. I have my Romak 3 stuff buried right now, but I think I posted another pic somewhere. I'll see what I can dig up...

    FAL, G3, and Bren mags:






    Comparison of width and length of feed lip area:



    Notice the HUGE rib on the back of the Bren, and the BHO lug that lives there. These would have to be deleted from both pieces. I think you could just cut the rib off and braze/solder/weld a new strip on the back. The follower could just be ground/milled off. Aside from the rib, the width and length of the .303 Bren mag is similar to the .308 mags.

    Look at the stampings in the sides of the FAL and the tabs and dimples at the top of the G3 mags. These mags weren't designed for a rimmed case, and I think these areas might cause problems when feeding the case. The Bren mag was designed for a rimmed case.




    These next 2 pics are just to show the front and back of the Bren feed lip area.







    And one final pic with the case dimensions and OAL measurements from Ammoguice.com

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  6. #26
    Master Endmill Breaker Rhino_66's Avatar
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    I do have some doubts about the Bren mag...

    With the shape and size of the 45-70, I think there might be an issue with how many rounds you can get into the Bren mag.

    The 45-70 has a larger base diameter and isn't tapered like the .303. The rounds won't follow the same curve when packed into the mag, so capacity could be seriously diminished.

    The size of the case head will also limit how the rounds can stack into the mag.

    I might draw up some 45-70 cases in Visio and see how much they curve when stacked together.


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  7. #27
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Thanks, Rhino! That helps. I am sorry to say that .303 mag may indeed not work. The .308 Bren may be just the ticket.

    I can stuff 9-10 rounds into a G3 mag. That's with the G3 follower. I need to bend some metal before I write off the G3 mags, because the bottleneck follower is the biggest hurdle.


    I'm going to shop around with some odd magazines like the Madsen LMG or anything else that looks the part. If I can adapt something that prevents me from re-inventing the wheel, I'll be happy.
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  8. #28
    Master Endmill Breaker Rhino_66's Avatar
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    Here's 10 .45-70 cases in single stack. I think the .303 Bren mag has too much curve to deal with this particular round.





    Jerry, I'm sending you a PM with the Visio file for the .45-70 case I just drew.



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  9. #29
    tired of idiots vz58's Avatar
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    looks more like a 5.45 mag curve or .223

  10. #30
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Heres some food for thought. once you get the 45-70 built then you can try one of these

    http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71592

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