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Thread: 44????

  1. #191
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Several of the custom mold makers will make molds any weight .429" bullet you want for $100-ish. Speer also makes 300 grain FMJs for the .44.

    A cast bullet ought to work just fine unless you want to really push the limits
    IF I BUILD IT IT WILL BE RUNNING AROUND 48,000 PSI OR SO . LEAD WILL NOT LIKELY WORK WILL AT THE SPEEDS PROJECTED. SEEMS LIKE WE WERE GITTING NUMBERS LIKE 2400 FPS iLL HAVE TO REREAD THE THREAD. SOME WERE AI AHVE A FEW ACTUAL LOADED ROUNDS FOR THE PROJECT.

    LEAD WOULD BE GREAT IN THIS AT SLOWER SPEEDS AN SUBSONIC . HOWEVER IF YOUR NOT GOING TO SHOT IT AT HIGHT SPEED AN PRESSURES WHY EVEN BUILD IT??

    A 45 AUTO, 10MM, 44 AUTO MAG ETC WOULD ALL BE BETTER AT SLOW OR SUPSONC WITH LEAD. THE 444 WAS DESIGNED AT LEAST IM MY MINDS AS TRYING TO GET THE MOST OUT OF A 44 CAL IN A AK LENGTH MAG. WOULD ITRY LEAD FOR PLINKING SURE BUT IM NIT GOING TO WASTE A LOT OF TIME MAKING UP CUSTOM BRASS TO SHOOT LEAD A T UNDER 1000 FPS WHEN A 45 AUTO WILL DO THAT AS IS AN ABOUT 75% CHEAPER.

    MY GOLAS WERE A HUNTING ROUND THAT WAS GOOD TO OVER 250 YARDS WITH A .44 OR SO CAL BULLET THAT WAS NOT TO HEAVY FOR CASE CAPACITY. IMO A 240 AN 265 GRAIN BULLET IS A BETTER WAY TO GO THAN A HEAIVER 458 OR 50 CAL BULLET. YOUR GOING TO HAVE FLATTER TRAJECTROY AN LESS RECOIL AN MORE SPEED WITH A 240 GRAIN ROUND AN ITS GOING TO KILL ANY THING IT HITS. I DONT RECALL THE BULLET WEIGHTS OF 458 SOCM AN 50 BW BUT THERE A LOT MORE. IMO ID RATHER HAVE THE BETTER RANGE AN FLATER SHOOTING AN LESS RECOIL. THE 450 BUSHMASTER WOULD BE GOOD ALSO IF AMMO , BRASS REAMERS AN BETTER BULLETS WERE OUT THERE. IF THEY MADE A GOOD .430 RIFLE TYPE BULLET THE 444???? OR SOME THING LIKE IT WOULD BE A BETTER ROUND. IM SURE THE LEVERLUTION BULLET IS GOOD BUT A DEDICATED BULLET MADE FOR NONE TUBE FEED GUNS WOULD REALLY MAKE THE CALIBURE A GREAT RIFLE ROUND. THE 444 MARLIN IS A GOOD ROUND IN A LEVER GUN IT COULD BE A GREAT ROUND IN A BOLT ACTION OR AUTO IF THERE WERE MORE BULLETS MADE. THE 444 MARLIN BASICALY USES A 44 MAG BULLET. A TOUGHTR HARDER RILFE VERSION WOULD BE SWEET FOR THE INCREASD SPPEDS OF THE 444 MARLIN AN OTHER STUFF WE COLD THINK UP.

    i STARTED TO LOOK INTO CUSTOM BULLETS OR MAKINGTHEM WIHT COPPER JACKETS OR EVEN SOFT POINTS AN ITS DOABLE.

    THE 41AN EVEN THE 375 STUFF IS PRETTY INTERESTING AS WELL AN A 41 VARIAANT COULD LIKEY BE BETTER IN A AUTO . IT WOULD HED SPACE OFF THE SHOULDER AN ALSO POSSABLU BE MORE ACCURATE DO TO THIS , CASE LENGTH WOULD BE LESS OF A FACTOR AS YO WOULD NOT NEED TO TRIM AS MUCH LIKE A CASE MOUTH HEAD SPACED ROUND.

    IMO THE 458SOCM 50 BEO IS KIND OF A BIG DICK THING TO MANY. A SMALLER BULLET GOING FASTER AN FLATTER BUT STILL A BIG BORE MIGHT BE A BETTER SOLUTION ESPECUALY WHEN FACTOR IN THERE IS ONLY ABOUT 30 GRAINS OF POWDER PUSHING IT. IMO ANY BULLET .35 CAL AN UP GOING OVER 2000 FPS IS GOING TO MAKE A MESS OF WHAT EVER IT HITS. i HAVEN SEEN TO MANY WILD ELEPAHNTS OR WATER BUFFALO IN NORTH AMERICA BUT I HAVE SEEN SOME 300 YARD SHOTS SO IMO LOOSING THE WEIGHT IS NOT A ISSUE ESPCIALY IN AK WERE RECOIL IS GOING TO REALLY FACTOR IN ON GETTING A FOLLOW UP SHOT ON TARGET. THE WHOLE POINT OF A SEMI AUTO BIG BORE IS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE SHOT. I KEEP ASKING OK AT WHAT POINT IS A BULLET BIG ENOUGH HEAVY ENOUGH TO KILL WHAT EVER IM HOLDING THE GUN FOR. I JUST DONT SEE ANY REAL WORLD ADVANTAGES OVER A 458 OR A .50 IF THE BULLET SELECTION WAS THERE.

    IN MY MIND THE 458 IS A BETTTER CHOICE ONLY DO TO THE RIFLE BULLETS . AN THAT ONLY VALID IF THOSE BULLETS ARE GOING TO WORK AT SLOWER SPPEDSD A 1.5" CASE IS GOING TO GIVE YOU. A BULLET FOR A 458 WIN MAG IS NOT LIKELY GOING TO BE GREAT AT 1800 FPS OUT OF A 16' AK BARREL.

    I HAVENT SHOT A LOT OF LEAD AN DONT KNOW WHAT THE MAX SPPED YOU CAN RUN A 44,45, 50 LEAD BULLET WITH OUT FOULING. IT DOES SEEM TO WORRY ME THAT A AK WITH A BIG MAG SHOOTING LEAD FAST AN HOT IS GOING TO BE A PAIN IN THE ASS.

    THERE ARE SOME 41-444 ROUNDS AN OTHER STUFF NECKED DOWN TO 41 OR 375. I CHOOSE THE 44 BECAUSE THERE ARE A FEW CHEAPER BLANKS AN BARRELS OUT THERE AN AT LEAST A VERY GOOD PISTOL BULLET SELECTION. DONT FORGET THE 44 MAG IS A PRETTY POTENT ROUND OUT OF A RIFLE ANY WAY AN IF IT WOULD FEED WOULD BE GOOD AS IS. I WANTED A GREAT ROUND AN A BETTER BULLET WOULD MAKE THAT HAPPEN . THE HORNADY LEVERLUTION BULLET GIVES A LOT OF ADVANTAGE TO THIS IDEA. THE 375 WOUD LIKEY BE A LOT EASIER TO FEED INTOTHE BARREL FORM A MAG .

    ONCE I GET MY 6MM BR VARINAT WORKING i MAY GO BACK AN LOOK AT THIS PROJECT SOME MORE AS ILL HAVE ALOT OF 308 AN 30-06 BRASS LAYING AROUND.

    KEEP IN MIND 30-06, 270, 8MM MAUSER LENGTH BRASS WOULD BE BETTER AS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO STRAIGHTEN THE SHOULDER FOR A APROX 1.80 CASE BUT
    7.62 X51 COULD EASLY BE STRAGHTNED OUT WITH A MANDERAL OR FIRE FORMED. 7.62 BRASS IS A LOT CHEAPER TO GET ONCE FIRED. iM SURE A TAPERED MADREL WOULD ALLOW YOU TO USE 7.62X51 BRASS. IT MIGHT LOOK A LITTLE FUNNY UNTILL FIRED.

  2. #192
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    LINK> http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/44-37230/index15.html

    THIS IS THE SECTION OF WERE WE WERE TRYING TO CALCULATE SPEEDS AN I NOW FEEL THAT THE NUMBERS MIGHT BE A LITTLE FAST. HOW EVER IM SURE ARE NUMBERS ARE CLOSE AN WE WERE FACTORING IN A A PRETTY LOW PRESSURE

    MY GUT IS TELLING ME THAT THE BULLET IS GOING TO TAKE UP A LOT OF THE CASE CAPACITY. tHIS IS ALSO WHY THE PROJECT WNT ON HOLD TO WAIT HFROT HE 265 GRAIN BULLETS TO COME OUT. I MAY ORDER A BOX( I REALLY NEED A 44 MAG TO SHOOT UP ALL THIS STUFF IF THE AK DONT HAPPEN) OF THE HEAVISET LEVER LUTION BULLETS IN 44 AN SEE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. iD WANT THE MAX CASE LENGTH WITH THOSE BULLETS WITH A OPTIMUM SEATING POSITION. IF THRE IS A CANALURE ID WANT TO BE ABLE TO CRIMP ON IT WITH ABOUT .010 OF TIP CLEARANCE IN WHAT EVER MAG BEING USED. .

    THE LOADED ROUND WILL DICTATE THE THE CHAMBER. THE FREE BORE IS ALSO IMPORTANT AN NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED AN YOU NEED THE LONGEST BULLETS FOR THAT.

  3. #193
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    LINK>http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/44-37230/index15.html

    THIS IS THE SECTION OF WERE WE WERE TRYING TO CALCULATE SPEEDS AN I NOW FEEL THAT THE NUMBERS MIGHT BE A LITTLE FAST. HOW EVER IM SURE ARE NUMBERS ARE CLOSE AN WE WERE FACTORING IN A A PRETTY LOW PRESSURE

    MY GUT IS TELLING ME THAT THE BULLET IS GOING TO TAKE UP A LOT OF THE CASE CAPACITY. tHIS IS ALSO WHY THE PROJECT WNT ON HOLD TO WAIT HFROT HE 265 GRAIN BULLETS TO COME OUT. I MAY ORDER A BOX( I REALLY NEED A 44 MAG TO SHOOT UP ALL THIS STUFF IF THE AK DONT HAPPEN) OF THE HEAVISET LEVER LUTION BULLETS IN 44 AN SEE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. iD WANT THE MAX CASE LENGTH WITH THOSE BULLETS WITH A OPTIMUM SEATING POSITION. IF THRE IS A CANALURE ID WANT TO BE ABLE TO CRIMP ON IT WITH ABOUT .010 OF TIP CLEARANCE IN WHAT EVER MAG BEING USED. .

    THE LOADED ROUND WILL DICTATE THE THE CHAMBER. THE FREE BORE IS ALSO IMPORTANT AN NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED AN YOU NEED THE LONGEST BULLETS FOR THAT.

  4. #194
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Does anyone have the quickload software? It does a pretty good job of figuring out the pressure curve and muzzle velocity. Some versions of it even have a case designing feature.

  5. #195
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    I've been meaning to buy that software. $150 doesn't seem too bad at all. All their addon stuff seems a bit pricey - $52 to convert from floppy to CD!

    Looking again at their shopping cart, it seems that while QuickLoad is able to use Wildcat data, there seems to be a limitation because their QuickDesign software is purpose-built for making a wildcat, plugging in numbers, and importing it into QuickLoad. So since they have a purpose-built software for another $150, I am wondering what the difference really is.

    Edit - WOWSA - you have to pay for every update! "Latest update 17 Nov 2012" = $15.95
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  6. #196
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    I'll agree that it isn't what I'd call cheap for a program, but if you're designing a cartridge it will quickly pay for itself with savings in reloading componets and take a little bit of the pucker factor out of it. The program is on my santa list so we'll see if I've been good or not. Here's one done for me on the 357AR as an example. You do have to get the information correct. I had someone else work up some loads but gave him the wrong H2o capacity of the un fireformed (smaller capacity) case by mistake. They were showing higher pressure than what I was actually getting, so we had to go back and do some headscratching and figure out where I'd made a mistake.
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    Last edited by moleman; 12-05-2012 at 06:47 PM.

  7. #197
    Gunco Good ole boy twa2471's Avatar
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    I got here to this post late, and may have missed it while reading, but did you try the 300 gr cast 45ACP, run through a bullet sizer to 44??? Fairly long bullet,but not to long, round nosed,,,,maybe even a swc 300gr????? Duno, unless I missed something about your choice of bullets ,,,it might be an option for plinking,, maybe more,,,hard alloy for hunting???? HUMMMM???? Possibly Just a thought.

  8. #198
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I got here to this post late, and may have missed it while reading, but did you try the 300 gr cast 45ACP, run through a bullet sizer to 44??? Fairly long bullet,but not to long, round nosed,,,,maybe even a swc 300gr????? Duno, unless I missed something about your choice of bullets ,,,it might be an option for plinking,, maybe more,,,hard alloy for hunting???? HUMMMM???? Possibly Just a thought.
    THE GUN HAS NEVER BEEN BUILT( BY ME AT LEAST). iM NOT SURE IF GUNTER EVER CONTINUED ON OR NOT. I GOT SIDE TRACKED BACK IN 09 WHEN OBAMA GOT RELECTED AN BY THE INFLUX OF 7.62X25 AMMO. EVERY ONE WANTED A BARREL THEN.

    A LEAD BULLET SWEDEGED TO FIT MIGHT BE OK OR BETTER YET MODIFY A MOLD TO GIVE A POINTED BULLET.

    I DOUBT YOU WILL GET A POINTED LEAD BULLET IN THE BARREL FROM A MAG WITH OUT SOME SERIOUS TIP DEFORMATION.

    LEAD MAY WORK OUT OF A GUN LIKE THIS BUT LIKE i SAID EARLIER IF IM GOING TO SHOOT LEAD AN PLINK ID JUST BUILD A 45 AUTO. THE BRASS FOR THIS IS GOING TO BE TIME CONSUMING TO MAKE AN EXPENSIVE VS A PISTOL ROUND. ID LIKELY BE DOING VERY LITTEL PLINKING . YEA YOU CAN RELOAD THE BRASS ONCE ITS MADE IF YOU CAN FIND IT. ALSO YOU WOULD NEED A REALLY BIG PORT TO SHOOT LOWER PRESSURE LOADS AN THEN UNLESS YOU HAVE A ADJUSTABLE PORT YOUR GOING TO HAMMER THE REAR TRUNION WITH HIGH POWER LOADS.

    ORIGANLY MY 444???? WAS GOING TO BE A AK PISTOL FOR DEER HUNTING IN HEAVY COVER .

    WITH THE PRICE OF KITS THESE DAYS ID REALLY CONSIDER A SAGIA 410 AN A RIFLED BARREL WITH 2.5 INCH BRASS HULLS LODED WITH THE BULLET/SLUG EXTENDED LIKE A RIFLE ROUND. IT LIKELY WOULD BE A BARREL ONLY SWAP AN USE SAGIA 3" MAGS.

    IM LOOKING AT THE 444???? AS A CANIDATE ON A SMALL RING MAUSER ALSO LIKELY WLL JUST BUILD A 444RIMLESS FOR IT IF i DO ANYTHING AS IT WILL FEED BETTER.
    OR MAYBE ONE OF THOSE RINELANDER 45ACP CONVERSIONS.

  9. #199
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    HMMM MAYBE IM OFF BASE AFTER LOOKIG AT A FEW SITES IT SEEMS THAT 444 MARLIN GUYS ARE SHOOTING LEAD PRETTY FAST.. AROUND 1600 FPS . THAT STILL SLOWER THAN MY PROJECTED NUMBERS BUT IF YOU COULD USE A 300 + GRAIN LEAD BULLET THEN YOU COULD GET THE PRESSURES UP TO MAKE CYCLING NOT A ISSUE. A CAST BULLET ON DEEER IS FINE IF i CAN MAKE IT FEED WITH OUT DAMAGAE AN ITS GOING FST ENOUGH.

    A CUSTOM MOLD WITH A POINTED BULLET WOULD BE DOABLE AN IT WOULD LIKELY AD SOME WEIGHT TO.

    OK SO WHAT IS A SAFE SPEED FOR CAST LEAD BULLETS IN .430 OUT OF A 18" BARREL WITH OUT SPECAL MIXTURES OF LEADAN ???? WITH OUT FOULING ISSUES???????? IM NOT A BULLET MAKER YET AN DONT KNOW A LOT ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN GT AWAY WITH

  10. #200
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    My old cast bullet loading book has a chapter on high velocity cast bullets, ie .30 caliber at 2500 fps or so. The trick seemed to be finding a a lube that worked with your particular barrel.

    Or you could buy 350 or 400 grain jacketed bullets; some of the boutique bullet makers do them for the .444 Marlin guys.

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