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Thread: 44????

  1. #71
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    this appears more like a misc die that he through in (ebay used crap)

    I went out and cut some 30-06 brass to 1.850 expanded straight (as best I could with some misc die parts)1. sized it in my 444 marlin die with the original expander removed.
    2. rexpanded the neck/bullet area with the 444 marlin dies. 3 seated the bullet with a 44 magnum die it didnot give much tension on the bullet so I 3. ran it through the 444 marlin seater and it seems to put a good squease on the bullet.
    I ended up with 3 rounds that If I had primed and powderd would not be afraid to try to fire.
    The only reason I needed the 44 mag die was that the 444 marlin seater/ the part that pushes the bullet down would not screw down far enough to fully seat the bullet. I really think this can all be done with a slightly modifed die set. Or perhaps a differant brand of 444 marlin dies that has a longer seating range. I can easly modify my seater to work and still be functional to do 444 marlin as well. A expander to straighten the brass out is a must if you want a nice taperd round. I think once I come up with chamber you could skip the expanding and just fire form the case buy shooting it.

    I then went out and made one with primer and powder just to say I have the first functional 444??? biggun special or a 11x46 Gunco special or a 430x1.85" or the 444 rimless short mag or the 444 SURT well any way I got the round now I need the gun.

  2. #72
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    OH YEA IT FITS IN A STANDARD AK/AR LENGTH MAG! 2.180" LOADED LENGTH ON THIS PATICULAR ROUND. IT WILL NOT STACK CORRECTLY IN IT HOWEVER. THE 223 ROUND WORKS BETTER BUT WITH 4 ROUNDS IN IT, ITS NOT PERFECT AND THE LIPS NEED TO BE PINCHED IN SOME.



  3. #73
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Very cool!

    You're going to need a straight mag, no doubt. You could either:

    1. Adapt a .308 magazine to fit, or use one of the .308 Saiga mags out there.

    or

    2. Cut off the top of the AK mag and weld it to an appropriately-sized length of rectangular steel tubing.
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  4. #74
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    Congrats! Looks like Midway has the 444 Marlin dies back in stock so I'll be ordering them today along with a factory crimp die. Did the standard 444 Marlin die roll the mouth of the case much? What size expander or expanders did you use to open the case up before sizing in the 444 Marlin die?

    I was going to make up a dummy chamber to test feeding if K-Var would ever get the .223 magazine shipped. If we can get it to feed then we should be set. Then time for a chamber reamer.

  5. #75
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I expanded it WAY oversize with a misc expander turned backwards. I never really measured it but it was bigger than a .45 bullet. I even got one stuck in my die and had to pound it out with a hammer. I cut a round lengthwise, and the walls do get thicker toward the bottom. so care needs to be taken not to cause damage at the base. perhaps a taperd expander that would match the brass would be doable. if you expand down about 75% down you get pretty good results. I get no roll crimp with the dies I am useing likely due to the shell case being shorter. a couple possabiltys here,1. shorten the die or2. maybe a 44 mag crimping die I am concerned that the 44 mag die will try to size the case down as the 44 mag has a smaller OD,.3. I am planing to get a Lee factory crimp die ($10) in 444 marlin and try that it might need to be shortend to work on this round. the factory crimp die works by puttind a series of littlr demples at the neck. I think this would be better than a roll crimp for head spacing issues and also does not require a groove.
    I am still very concerned with feeding and extraction of this round. I converted the case demensions of the 450 bushmaster specs that HC posted to inches. I found that the 450 bushmaster tapers down .022" from base to mouth. My round only has .009" less than half. this means that the bushmaster has a .013 more clearance when entering the breach. the tromix 444 marlin has a shrouded barrel to aid feeding the same as the .410 SG so non of that build applies here. I am expecting to have to champer the breach considerably (not sure how much case/base can be left unsuported?) and a lot of feed ramp and or mag work to get this thing to feed. to get them to fit in a AK mag. IF the Hornady bullets were avaliable this would likely be easier. The hornady bullets might require a shorter case I left some room with this case length for a longer bullet but not a lot. I want to build a bolt gun as well if I buy a reamer so even if I cant get this to work on a ak the reamer will still be of use. I am still looking for a way to do this nearly straight chamber with out a $150 reamer.

  6. #76
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I was going to make up a dummy chamber to test feeding.

    Thats not a half bad idea. just drill a hole in some round stock or a old yugo barrel this would save the risk of messing up a good barrel an chamber when working the bugs out.
    I wonder If a reamer manufactuer would cut a better deal on several reamers at once???

  7. #77
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    For the crimp, try this:

    1. seat a bullet to the proper length
    2. adjust the bullet seater way out
    3. screw the die down closer to the base until the crimp is formed
    4. screw the bullet seater down to the bullet


    This should give you what you need. Too much crimp is usually bad, so don't make that mistake. Some of the factory 308 I have is crimped so tightly that the bullet is deformed!


    About getting the mag to feed -

    Consider setting back the center support if you have to. I managed to get my .308 build to work by relocating the center support back about 3/16" or so. It is now 5.1" from the front of the receiver. I had to cut the hammer some near the pivot to get it to fit without getting stuck on the spring. A small tweak, but it gives you quite a bit of extra space to play with!
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  8. #78
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Hc the problem I have is the die bottoms out on the shell holder before it forms a crimp with the 444 marlin dies. the 44 mag dies start to reform the larger case when I try to use them.
    I think this thing is going to kick like hell and there is going to need to be a pretty decent crimp. not to mention that the bullet is going to have to contend with a bullet guide and the breach opening to load its self. I also want to avoid a roll crimp as it will affect headspace. I am really hopeing a lee factory crimp will be the answer in conjunction with a crimp groove in the bullet. Right now I am working with hornady 265 GR semi jacketed Flat Points as being my primary load for this build. before I finalize my case length I need to make sure the barrel twist is correct and what other bullets I may want to use, I am sure that I want to be able to shoot cheaper an lighter cast lead stuff as well but suspect that this thing is going to be finicky as far as feeding. I wonder how the bushmaster is crimped??

  9. #79
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    Yep, I was thinking a 444 Lee factory crimp also. We wouldn't want to roll crimp with case that headspaces on the mouth.

    The test chamber could be a stub that has been made a slip fit into a trunnion. The barrel pin will hold it good enough for testing. What have you guys found for clearences on chamber specs? Someplace I recall .003 per side for a total of .006. That seemed a little big.

    Finished the adapter for the expander holder, so next will be a couple of different sized expanders.

  10. #80
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    .006 would not be too loose for an autoloader. That gives you .003" for case expansion. I don't know if that would be enough for a straight-walled case like this. The good thing is if it is not, you can cut it bigger with another reamer.

    Look back at my chamber casting thread and you'll see my Romy "G" kit chamber casting is .006" larger at the neck than reloading specs, and .003" larger at the base:

    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/chamber-casting-35607/
    Gunco Member #10

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    The "original" Boltcutter Rivet Squeezers:
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    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

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