Isn't the 6.5 mm Grendel supposed to be based on the 6mm BR, which I read somewhere is based on the 7.62x39? Wonder if the AK could be converted to the Grendel. Ballistics are supposed to be very impressive.
i have seen quite a bit of brass cased wolf for $10.77 and at times as low as $9.99. which is high compared to the steel cased stuff. but compared to other brass cased ammo that ain't too bad. compared to decent 75g 5.56 --$$wise it costs about the same.
seems like i saw some of the good brass somewhere for $33/100--but i look at a lot of stuff on the net--YMMV on that.
haven't seen any of the steel cased stuff--and don't expect in for another year or so.--by then it might not be as inexpensive as everyone hopes. but i bet it will be no more expensive than any other round by that time.
i could try to put in that AA 16in barrel a AK--but it is mid-length--just much simpler to build an AR--you have parts that fit and mags. an AK in 6.5 would be the system to beat--and i'm sure the MOA would shrink considerable for an AK with the grendel. i may build one in the AR if nothing else. i guess time will tell--like it does for the 6.8 and 7.62x39 in the AR.
I hate to say it, but the more I look at the 6.5 and the 6.8, I must say I think I'd lean toward the 6.8 at this time, if I were to pick between the two. The Grendel's purpose is a mid- to long-range precision round. Really more like a 6.5 WSSM than anything else.
The 6.8 is intended to be a more heavy-hitting all-purpose round (vs. 5.56). To me, that versatility makes it more interesting as a general-purpose round.
Now, if Wolf actually does start selling the 6.5 I would probably be inclined to pick up some dies and a barrel "just because" it is available. One could always neck-up the brass to 9mm (.35 caliber) rounds for a nice 9x39 clone
HC this is were I will have dissagree. The dissagrement is not about he facts. Its which I would perfer. Yes the 6.8 has more close range knock down power. however in a real world situation. if you get hit by either one your are likely going to die if it is placed properly. I like long range stuff and likely are not going to be doing any close quarter combat (I hope) but I might want to try to hit a target or animal at 300 yards or more. I feel the grendal is more versital. both will out perform the 5.56. the grendal will out shoot the 6.8 at long range and nearly equial the 6.8 at close quarters the close quarters advantage can be reduced even further with different bullet selection.
as far as the grendal being close to a 6.5 WSSM no way! the grendal will not even come close to a 260 Rem let alone the magnum. ammo price and avaliblty would sway me one direction or the other.
I have a stainless heavy 6.8 SPC barrel set aside along with a 223 bolt(to be opend up) for a future 6.8 build
Drilled a section of 1.00 Delrin rod then reamed it 6.5mm thru and followed with the reamer then milled away a section.Round drops right in to the shoulder with a bit of wobble available when seated.I'm going to use it.What trouble there may arise seems like it would be minimal.
I agree with the 6.8 over the 6.5. To mee it just seems that the Grendel round is just reinventing the wheel, I think the intermediate rifle cartridge round was done before, the 7.62 kurtz, the 7.62x39, the 7.62x45 etc... I just really dont see the need, is it that much more accurate of a round, or are the guns that it is built around just better accuracy platforms?
It is the round that makes it accurate. The BC of 6.5 is really sweet. I wonder how the new 6.5 LBC-AR would work. I think Les baer seems to be more reasonable for maufactures so I wonder if it would be cheaper then a Grendel.
pat
There are other 6.5s out there just as good or better than the Grendel, but considering the Grendel is made from a 7.62x39 case and "natively" feeds through an AK magazine and bolt face, it's hard to justify anything else for an easy AK conversion.
After looking into the 6.5 it quickly became apparent that the intersection of realistic bullet weight, practical velocity, and ballistic coefficient has a nice sweet spot between 6 and 6.8mm. The old guys who designed the 6.5x55, .256 Mannlicher (which is, despite the designation, a 6.5...) and others did their homework.
I liked the 6.5 enough that I did a semi-wildcat for my 1905 Ross straight-pull rifle, necking .303 British brass down and running it through a Mannlicher sizing die to create, basically, a rimmed .256 Mannlicher. Pretty much the same deal as the Grendel; basically just necking the case down to 6.5. Since the rifle was already chambered for .303I don't expect any feed problems.
i have been shooting the 6.5 grendel for some time. i like it considerably better than the 6.8spc2. and either are better all around than 5.56 . the 6.5 really holds up well at longer ranges and gives up nothing up close. the 6.8 is very good at assault rifle ranges around 350-400M they do what they were designed to do within the powder volume limitations of their respective cases.
the thing about the 6.5g and 6.8 is that they were made to fit in the ar-15 type of mags so they have a limited width and AOL.
all around a 308 and other full size rounds on are better. but they won't fit in a standard assault rifle sized mag.
IF ammo for either the 6.5/6.8 were about the same price as 5.56/7.62x39 they would be selling like hotcakes.
i have seen some really impressive velocity from some 6.5 grendel based wildcats firing the 6mm bullet @ 100gr weight.
there was a lot of push for the grendel 6.5 round to be used for LMG round but the DOD was too busy buying $60,000 ink-pens and china made US flags!
a 6.5g AK would be interesting to shoot and could be a very accurate and long ranged shooter.
just build a 260 remington load it to around 50,000 PSI nad it will out do any grendal or 6.8 SPC. the AK is not limmited to a AR length round so why restrict your selves to a AR round?? the grendal round is blown straight so it really wont work in a x39 mag.
If you going to play with this stuff you really need to reload anyway so might as well go with a wildcat or 308 win based round. IMOO a 6.5 or 6mm x39 based on a necked down only x39 brass would give a good compromise of velocity and reliability and would likely use a standard x39 mag. there are 6mmx39 wild cats out there. Very few of us can aford to do mag dumps of factory loaded grendal or spc ammo. a 243win or 260 rem can be formed from 7.62x51 once fired brass for a reasoably priced round. dont forget the 7mmx08 also.
I have been thinking of building one of my Barreless M76 kits into one of the three calibers...
6.5mm-06, 6.5x57, 270 winchester... Leaning toward 270 just because I can get commercial but I can reload so the 6.5x57 or 6.5mm-06 would be fine also.
Wish I could get some good comparisons of the three but have not bee able to find much. I think the first two would be the easiest to feed out of the M76 mag so I have been waffling a bit. Now that I have a lathe I could get a 6.5 blank chanbered in one of those and do the profiling myself or I guess I could get a reamer and do that but it may be a bit more.
pretty slick wish he showed the punch a little better and the die a little better. was he just running a tight fitting punch into the neck ?? or was he pushing against some thing else??
just to add another idea to the mix.
The 6.5 MPC (Multi Purpose Cartridge) is a SSK development urged by Brian Hormberg (USMC) based on the 5.56 cartridge shortened and opened to 6.5 MM and the same OAL as the 5.56.
just to add another idea to the mix.
The 6.5 MPC (Multi Purpose Cartridge) is a SSK development urged by Brian Hormberg (USMC) based on the 5.56 cartridge shortened and opened to 6.5 MM and the same OAL as the 5.56.
clikc on the word "MR"Mr
looks to me like a simple switch of the ak .223 barrel.
the round is way under powered when compared top the grendal or 6.5x39. Im not saying its a bad round just it dosent have every thing the grendal has. as far as the barrels there really is not any differance in the amount of work. the 6.5 MPC miight be a little easier to get a 223 mag to work but thats about it. the down side is you will need a 223 or possable a 5.45 bolt were the grendal will use the x39 bolt unmodifed (all though a spring loaded pin is advisable for all of these rounds)
cheap brass is a upside for the 6.5 MPC or the 6mm version. I have been considering a
6mm version with high coefeciant 100 grain bullets for a target build but I have way to much going on to start another calibur conversion.
I just skip the AR length rounds now a days an go straight to a 308 length version. the 260 Rem will blow the doors of the grendal even loaded light. I refuse to be confined to AR ammo in Stamped AK reciver.
i have always enjoyed the 6.5 x 55 round for its characteristics. your comments make good since regarding power and unmodified bolt. I am just finishing my saigas thought a 7.62 x 25 or even a 10 mm would be nice. it seems like the tok ammo is coming up in price. I shot the glock 20 10 mm and i was thinking the 135 grain 1600 fps from the handgun would perform well out a 16 inch barrel. Like you i will have to save my pennies before i get started on something else. then there is "hcpookie's 6,5 x 55 conversion first probably".
that is another good choice in a 6.5 and is likely safe at factory pressures. it will do any thing or more than a 260Rem if loaded to the same pressures. for me it comes down to price and avaliabilty of brass and the price of a barrel with the correct chamber. I would not hesitate to build a 6.5 x 55 over a grendal IMOO like the 260Remit will blow the doors of the grendal In every area except ammo carry weight. WHY be stuck with short AR length case??? If I ever come a cross a target weight 6.5x55 barrel Id like to build one. the mag selection makes the 308 length rounds a little easier but HCpookies gun works and the mags are avaliable.
To anybody interested, restoreit turned, reamed,headspaced and assembled my a&b 6.5 bbl blank,ak47 trunnion. The gun is still in the testing phase, but the rounds chamber perfectly. Mine was the first one he did w/ his new reamer,and all is well. u should PM him about doing the work if interested.
mtdew I've got a couple of questions for you via PM.
-MRA
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