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Thread: BUILDING A NEW VARMIT AK.

  1. #21
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Nice gun wouldnt mind having it myself. that side mount scope may cause some of it. reciver flex will affect a side mount to some degree but It really should be minumal at 100. have you tried it with the flash surpressor removed??? again really nice build. I should do a traditional looking 223 some day

  2. #22
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    Thanks! It's a one of a kind so far as I know... don't know anybody else with exactly that set up.

    I thought about that when I couldn't get it to group... receiver flex, the rail, the mount. I don't think the difference in groupings would be that dramatic though from one ammo to the next if it were just the flex vs bullet weight. Especially at 100yd like you say. Besides that, it's actually a pretty heavy, well built little beast with all the wood (like 11lbs w/empty mag). Reinforced trunnion, thicker gauge metal receiver and I think the rail actually helps to stiffen it. Low recoil, adjustable gas system... I don't think there would be enough flex to move my poi 5" back and forth across the target.

    Like I said, I won't know for sure until I experiment with some heavier ammo of better quality. Next time I sit down to see how tight I can get the groups... I'll play around with removing the suppressor. There's a flat spring on there that keeps it from being 'wobbly' like your typical AK attachment... so it should remain accurate I should think, just like the AR's with the birdcage's are.
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  3. #23
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I don't think the difference in groupings would be that dramatic though from one ammo to the next if it were just the flex vs bullet weight
    I agree on the above ammo is causing the big group. hand loading is a lot of fun and worth it. it would be cool to get that thing a little tighter than even the top picture. I dont hate AR,s but some of the owners rub me the wrong way it would be cool to have a stock appearing AK that would do 1/2" groups that looked like it came off the rack some were for $300. (yours is nicer than that). and smoke a non varmit AR.

    you might want to try removing the lower hand guard and if possable freeing up the gas tube or make one to try that dont put pressure on the GB. also dont rest on the fore arm and try it. how bad is the trigger(#1 reason guys cant shoot a AK accuratly IMOA) polishing the trigger/hammer engagement areas and shiming away some of the creep by placing a shim under the rear of the trigger(do so at your own risk) can make a huge differance. clean the barrel every 30 shots.

  4. #24
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    The trigger is actually pretty nice, if I do say so. I always hit the mating surfaces of the G2's with a small file. If you do a good job of it, you can get a crisp clean 2 stage trigger out of it.

    Actually, I'm sure I can pull better groups than the ones posted in the top target. At the time I shot that group, I'd already been shooting for awhile, frustration regarding the Wolf ammo, the heat... at the time I was just happy that I was getting decent groups and my scope on target. Next range trip should yield better results.

    I hear you about certain elements that worship at the altar of the AR. You'd think their world would just implode if they had to admit that a 'common AK' might actually be competitive. I'm not even saying that the AK platform in general will be just as accurate as the AR platform (I think from an engineering point of view it physically can't be by design) ... but I'm tired of hearing about how inaccurate AK's are. "why, you'd might as well just THROW the bullets downrange.." How accurate is accurate enough? If an AR gets .5"moa and an AK gets 1"moa... isn't that still pretty dam accurate?? I think most of it is the ammo... nobody makes accurate 5.45 or x39. I would put my M95 up against any off the rack AR any day of the week though. With quality ammo... I'd say any off the rack 5.45 would compete with any govt profile off the rack AR (with comparable ammo).

    The AK design can be made sub moa accurate without too dramatic of effort.... you just need all the right elements to come together. The same elements that are often taken for granted by the AR. All JMO, of course.
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  5. #25
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Im thinking of adding this element!!
    Pumping up the .223: experiments with a self-loading .223 Ackley Improved | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

    a 223 ackely improved can come close to 4000 fps and still shoot standard ammo for plinking. Im thinking 1-8 twist
    the AR does seem to have a better lug engagement system(more percise) but other than that Im not so sure the ak is not better in some ways. an aluminum reciver is going to warp some as it warms up and the scope is mounted to the reciver so if it moves so does the point of impact. I have seen stainless recivers and composite recivers which might be better. I also read accounts of ar,s breaking bolts and cracking uppers and other issues. I can find one single failure of a propwerly assempled AK except for bad ammo issues or obstructed barrels. There is no argument a custom or high dollar AR can flat out shoot sub .5 or even .25 groups. the cost of these guns is often in the $2000-$3000 range also. My Ak will out shoot most of the shelf military style AR,s now and it is comparable to the ones in the $1000 -$1200 range. I havent even tried more than 4 differant bullets and 2 powders yet. I built it pulled a hand load out of the book loaded it up to max(shot great but blew primers) backed it off 1.5 grains and went hunting with that load the last two years. it does .5" 5 shot groups or BETTER. I have done several one hole 3 shot groups. likely in the .200 range. but for me the acid test is with a hot barrel in hunting situations. that means 10 rounds at steady pace.
    think of the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions spent developing the AR to its current target/varmit configuration. some of those guns have $700+ barrels exotic alloy bolts and firing pins. 10 OZ triggers, custom fitted uppers skys the limit. compared that to guys like me with a $75 dollar savage take off barrel and a lathe. (nothing against savage best bang for the buck in a 223 bolt action varmit gun IMOA). there is not one product designed for the AK to really improve accuracy other than maybe a adjustable trigger and there not great. no custom barrels, or even a really decent RSB/scope mount. (I would love to see a replacement RSB that was designed to hold a weaver rail. All the AK accesories are clamp on stuff that makes the gun look bad ass but hurts accuracy. Ammo development of the 7.62x39 is almost non exstant. lucky to find two differant loads from most manufactures and then the bullets suck.
    It would not hurt the AK,s rep to make the thing more accurate and competive. and more hunter accepted IMOA.
    I have often wonderd if a accurised AK barrel assembly would sell just press it in and pin it type deal. it would come complete with a new gas block scope mount custom gas block adjustable, and some type of floating fore grip. no front sites, no hand guard retainer, just a good barrel that floates with a scope mount on the RSB. maybe in 223 for existing 223,s and some thing like a 22 or 6mm ppc or 6.5 grendal conversion for 7.62x39 guns that will use the stock bolt as is. the grendal is getting popular. and would be perfectly suited in a custom AK IMOA.

  6. #26
    Gunco Veteran SA58's Avatar
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    I agree with everything you said 1biggun... there's a reason for the switch to piston operated AR uppers. The AK certainly would seem (and proven to be) a more robust platform... I agree that it just hasn't been exploited to it's fullest (yet). It's day will come though. I've got to get into reloading... you know, I was at Gander Mnt. today and they didn't have any .223 over 55gr.
    ...I'm not tense! Just terribly, terribly alert.

  7. #27
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I was at Gander Mnt. today and they didn't have any .223 over 55gr.
    I was there as well (madison wisconsin) and noticed the same thing, plus there prices are wacked out. I wouldnt buy there except for powder. If you are going to shoot much you need to reload. I hope you are keeping your old brass.
    the other thing that occured to me is your gun possably has a 5.56 Nato vs 223 chamber. this means even more free bore and head space. I am not sure of this but I think the wolf is loaded to 223 specs at least that what the box says. In my rifle some of the foregn mill surplus brass nato stuff blows primers. possable due to bullet being into the rifling on my savage 223 barrels chamber. just something to think about, you stated your barrel was marked 223 1-7 however. I am not sure why a military AK would have a 223 chamber and not a 5.56 nato spec chamber? werent those built to shoot NATO spec ammo? My bulgy mags are marked 223 as well always wonderd about that?
    The sad truth is the AK is bought by most as a cheap(was) to shoot assult style weapon and 90% of the time is just used for blasting cans and dirt clods.
    There is no real market for a very accurate AK as the price would likely excede the AR if they were built that way. I got into building these because I wanted a cheap pistol to hunt in the shotgun/ pistol zone. I doubt that AMD 65 pistol build had more than $100 in it including the used scope. I likely would not have shelled out $300 for a kit as there are other options at that price range. As the cost of AK kits goes up, the AR becomes a better deal all the time. for $700-$800 I can likely snap a varmit AR together with a decent barrel and all the whistles and bells and shoot .5" groups. It is getting really tough to do a Good custom AK build for under $500 these days. If I didnt have kits from several years ago I wouldnt do it.
    Its to bad Siaga does not have a heavy barreled target model for sale in the US, It would likley sell if it was under $500. all it would take for for them to do it would be a 20 guage GB on a decent heavy barrel with a tighter 223 chamber float the barrel(easy) and a better trigger and you would have a pretty decent gun. they could likely do it for less than $50 more than a standard one.

  8. #28
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    If it is stamped 5.56 then it is. What you are thinking about is the fact that the Saiga .223 barrels are stamped .223 but are actually 5.56. That was for the Russian law that states "no military stuff to be owned by civillians". So they stamped it .223 and everything is OK. That is what I've read, I haven't made a chamber casting to confirm the specs.
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  9. #29
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    If it is stamped 5.56 then it is. What you are thinking about is the fact that the Saiga .223 barrels are stamped .223 but are actually 5.56. That was for the Russian law that states "no military stuff to be owned by civillians". So they stamped it .223 and everything is OK. That is what I've read, I haven't made a chamber casting to confirm the specs

    I didnt know that.
    I had heard they also some how mark the brass, once fired to make it possable to determine if it was shot in a military or civilean weapon.
    I would have thought that being sold in The USA marked as a 223 it would have had a 223 spec chamber to pass all the SAMMI requirements (assuming there are requirements).
    so does that mean the the BULGY mags I get that are stamped/marked 223 were made for the civilian market???

  10. #30
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Yep, positive. It's stamped on the barrel. '5.56 1/7'. Just Yugoslavian military, chrome lined M95 (M90)
    I would find some 5.56 nato ammo and see how it shoots. didnt the nato spec stuff get loaded with heavyier bullets as well? Thus the the need for more free bore.
    seem like the article I read in the NRA magazine about the differances said that it was safe to shoot 223 in a 5.56 chamber but not the opposite, and that the 223 was usualy not as accurate in a 5.56 chamber. I believe this was due to the losser head space and or shorter bullet seating.

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