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BUILDING A NEW VARMIT AK.

4K views 32 replies 7 participants last post by  1biggun 
#1 ·
I am in the planning stages of a new 223 varmit build. The varmit II will be an all out attempt at out doing my previous build. I am starting to collect parts and think about how I want it. I bought a match grade, benchrest barrel in 1in 9 twist. This barrel is beautiflly machined it almost seems a shame to cut the threads off it. the thight chamber is possably going to cause feeding issues as well it will require neck turning of quality brass . I am going all out on this build. match barrel, heavy wall reciver, yugo trunion. heavyer scope mounts, milled drop out trigger group that is eaiser to adjust. possably a second trigger group that is set up for singleshot only in the 1 pound or less range the trigger group will also have larger more percisian pins, push button saftey, left hand charge handel so shell catcher wont hit or be in the way, longer mag well an custom mag so I can seat heavy bullets further out like the AR guys do in 1000 meter compition but mine will not have to be hand feed, aluminum float tube fore grip, adjustable muzzel brake (possably if accuracy will not be affected), aluminum gas block with stainless linner and a shut off, also looking at smaller, lighter firing pin posabilitys and a some way of reducing the lock time on the hammer as well. the stock is up in the air but I want a quick adjust rear rest on it and a way to add weight. I am thinking a custom dust cover that will allow easier removel with a even lower scope. I want to get the scope as low as possable to the barrel. it will be a while before it is done but I will post pics unlike the last build. I aqm posting this in the calibur conversion section because It will be on a 7.62x39 kit and parts. the bolt will be Kvar bulgy.

are there any threaded trunions for a stamped reciver out there avaliable??? was there even such a animal? was thinking a threaded barrel wold be a good idea as it will not have as much stress and tension on it. I am thinking of finding some place were this thing might be competive in a class against AR15,s. I dont compete in rifle shoots but might like to try. maybe 1000 meter or WHAT?? any compitition shooters out there. also looking at a 22 PPC barrel as well.
 
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#3 ·
I'd be surprised if you achieve anything better than M.O.M at 500 meters on the AK platform.
SUPRISE

current gun built three years ago



My first attempt at reloading 2 years ago 5 shots 100 yards of a flat bed truck slight cross wind. work up load 50 grain vmax


here is 20 rounds shot at moderate pace into two targets no barrel cooling while making scope adjusments at 200 yards! if you look close on the right target you will see a circle around the first five that are touching. I then went to the other target and gave the scope two clicks to the left and took out the center with three rounds. the remainder of the Mag (10 rounds)was then shot into bolth circles. one round of 20 is out side of the orange ( MY fault) the targets are on a stuck on the dust sheild of a 44mm scope to give an idea of there size. this was shot 4 weeks ago sighting in for prairie dog hunt off a flat bed truck but in a rest. very slight cross wind. 50 grain nosler balistic tip h322 powder winchester brass trimed to length. no sorting buy weight or neck turning or any thing complicated. likely room for improvement.

my current gun will shoot at or under .5" 5 shot groups @100 yards now with a 26" savage take off barrel and a 2.5 LB trigger and cheap optics. and that is with 50 grain varmit bullets. It is on par with most AR 15,s in the $1200 range that I have seen shoot and will out do a lot of them. last month I was routenly taking praire dogs with it at 400 yards with kills out to 600. cross winds and my inablity to adjust optics with any consistancy was the limiting factor that and the 50 grainers just run out of steam.
I am confident that if the new barrel is any bettter than the factory savage takeoff and I could get the trigger pull to 1.5lbs an be able to load heavy match bullets seated out to were they are even close to the rifleing that I can improve the berformance over my current gun, I hope to shoot 69-77 grain math bullets
In 223 it is on par with other auto loaders that I have run across in the same calibur (not a lot of them but a few varmit AKs from rock river and DPMS) IF it would be competive in a match, I have no idea. but I certanily feel it will give a good showng against other 223 autos.
the main cost I,ll have in this is in the barrel and optics. the rest is all labor on custom parts. My current gun was built for under $400. The new build is going to need a good scope no more $75 BSA stuff that hurts my eyes and wont repeat its settings. Im likely looking at $500 to $1000+ in optics but that will be some thing that works on other guns down the road.
I have not shot it on paper at 500 yards or at a range off a good bench but it will do a hell of a lot better than a meter group at that range.
 
#4 ·
Yeah I'm in the same boat - my .223 Saiga, shooting Wolf 55 grain, keeps a pretty tight pattern. I sighted in my 3.5x "wide angle" military scope and I was impressed with the performance. I built my rifle into an AK-101 clone, so it has all the AK-74 things on it, such as the muzzle brake. I would say it kept everything in the 9-10 ring IIRC.

There are about 20 different things that can be done to help improve accuracy on an AK, and on a .223 platform you already have an inherently stable caliber. Check this out - I found a bullpup design from Russia that has a free-floated barrel, VERY COOL BTW, and I would suspect that helps grouping:

 
#6 ·
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like to see some 7.62x39 groups at 500 or 1000 meters..


BIGAL funny you mentioned that I am working on a .308x39 that I have high hopes for. It is going to use a rechamberd 30-06 barrel stainless sporter profile aproximently 23". It will have some of the features of my first varmit build but the barrel will be lighter. It may not get the custom gas bock and floating tube, Or the 18 punds of carry weight. I do expect/want it to shot a 1"" group however. My amd 65 pistlol that is scoped has shot 1" groups at a 100 with hand loads. I have a line on some lupa brass so we will see how it goes. I bought reamers so I may do a bolt action in 7.62x39 as well and I am looking for a heavy .308 blank for a all out 7.62x39 AK. I have seen some very very tight groups posted buy reloaders with bolt actions in 7.62. there is no reason given my results with the varmit build that a good barrel and ammo in 7.62 will not shoot as well at least at 100 yards. I have no illusions of shooting 1000 meter with it however. (any one now at what range a 7.62round would go subsonic???) that I have a lot of projects on the table right now so it will be a while.

HC that gun is very very interesting I would like to see the scope mount up close as well as the rest of it. I see the mount is suported by the barrel and the trunion or the RSB. that barrel has to be close to 28" long and that break is huge an the hole looks 30 cal. Do you have any info on it???????.
My varmit rifle has a floating barrel of sorts. the gas tube is not touching the barrel the piston does ride in the Gas block but it is a loose fit in the carrier. the rsb/scope mount is still pressed onto the barrel but it is mated to the trunion to act like one piece. the fore grip makes no contact what so ever. It shot the same with or without a gas port and tube
I see the scope mount on a AR15 as a detriment to the system. you have a scope on a aluminum reciver with the barrel screwd into that. if nothing else the expansion and contraction of aluminum being differant from the steel barrel should in theroy throw off the aim. I dont have a lot of AR experiance (I do have 2 recivers for proposed varmit builds here though.) to me the limiting factor of the AK is the bolt lock up. it is pretty sloppy. trueing the bolt to the trunion is tough as the lugs are small and nothing really centers it tightly.
If you think that sagia shoots good with wolf55 grain try some hand loads or hornady stuff you will likely be more Suprised. mine shot good with factor stuff but got amazing to me with basic reloads.
 
#7 ·
You guys should check out some of these groups and loads. If to be belived there is a
.193 group listed there and a lot of .250 groups. the round is accurate also the parent of the 6mm ppc arguably the mosgt accurate in the world. If I can get my 223 to shoot
.5 groups then thre is no reason a 7.62x39 or .308x39 will not do the same (click on the 7 below for the link)

7
 
#8 ·
don't take me wrong, i just see the 7.62x39 as anything but a 500m m.o.m cartridge. kinda like a modernized 30-30. I know everything can be improved, but to what extent is it worth it. The .223 round is a little different.

If I was going to attempt such a project, i believe i would start out with a milled receiver....
 
#9 ·
I don't think anyone has actually taken the time and effort to accurize (is that a word?) a 7.62x39 round. I was really talking about the AK action itself, and a PPC round on an AK action would perhaps be the best all-around tack driver for the AK platform IMO.

Now I have wondered just how accurate of groups you can get out of the x39, and honestly I think a great deal of it boils down to how good of a barrel and how good of ammo you can get. I think it would benefit greatly from a name-brand barrel, perhaps a bit longer for extra velocity, and hand loads that have had all of the "tricks" done to it, even neck turning. But again, most people are going to put that effort into a "proven" round like the .223 and stick with cheap ammo for their AKs. Which is a shame! Because if my .223 can keep things in the black with a factory barrel, just think what biggun's match-grade barrel could do.
 
#16 ·
I don't think anyone has actually taken the time and effort to accurize (is that a word?) a 7.62x39 round....
+1
Good ammunition is key for accuracy in any platform.

I was getting these 5 shot groups with my M95 and good ammo @ 100yd's.


I'm confident I can tighten those groups up substantially. At the time I was trying to dial in my scope using 62gr Wolf fmj. It patterned like a shotgun.


...where's the pattern? 1-7 twist should like heavier rounds, so I think the ammo is crap. Proper/good ammunition is key. A decent trigger helps too.

If somebody made up some 7.62x39 rounds as good as they could be, you'd probably get groups as good if not better than any other semi-auto rifle in that caliber with an AK. IMO, the blanket statement that 'AK's are inaccurate' is a myth.
 
#10 ·
I've rechambered 30-30 for 30-30 ackley and the results are amazing. i'm sure you can obtain good results from the x39, but i believe you have to start with the big problems (flex=slop).

one thing i have never seen is anyone post accuracy results from their x39 from a bolt rifle.
 
#11 ·
BigAl, the link (the "7" posted by 1biggun) is the reported results of just such a bolt action. If true, quite impressive.
From that link:
We chambered a Krieger stainless fluted barrel, with a 10" twist, for this cartridge. It was finished at 25.5 inches, and installed in a Remington 700 action. A Leupold 6.5-20 scope was installed in Leupold rings and bases.
Here's the link again: 7
 
#12 ·
BigAl I honestly would have agreed with you on the milled reciver 3 years ago. I built that varmit 223 on a dare an a bet with spare parts. I would have been thrilled with A one inch group. to get sub 1/2" groups as easy as I did still seems to good to be true.
the truth is IMOA that the reciver flex is not as much of a issue as with a bolt action due to the scope being on the barrel and not on the reciver. all the sheet metal reciver does is hold the trigger grop and the carrer in place. I have read posts on other boards were guys claim there milled reciver guns are not as accurate as stamped. It is possable that a stamped reciver may dampen barrel harmonics or perhaps they cool better or maybe it dampens the trigger group vibration .
Harmonics and the bolt being sqare to the barrel, bolt flex, an firing pin weights, and lock time, barrel tension all come into play but after shooting my varmit build over 1500 rounds at varmits I really am certain that almost any calibure on a stamped reciver can be made to shoot sub 1" moa with a good barrel, chamberd correctly and really good ammo. I will likely find that my new varmit II version may be only slightly more accurate than version I or not at all. I feel at some point ,likely at the sub .5" group range there is going to be a wall that the AK system will not allow you to do any better. it will be a combination of bolt flex, lock time and the swing of a heavy hammer into a not perfectly centerd firing pin. or the .080 or larger gas port causing the barrel to warp at a certain temp or possably the barrel pin causing tension on the top half of the barrel only, or the 23mm limit on barrel OD, but something will prevent it from going super accurate (1/4" groups). I intend to play around with these CHEAP guns and see what the limit is.
As far as the 7.62x39 goes the round is limited by its case capacity for getting much in the way of velocity out of it but bolt guns can shoot very very accurate with it. I got the reamers I got cheap takeoff barrels so what the hell, build it throw in some good ammo and see what it does. It will be a nice light hunting capiable pretty stainless barrel shooter. Like I said I have shot several 1" groups with a 12.5" pistol in 7.62x39 so I know the potential is there.
If anyone want to donate a .30 cal match grade barrel blank or a milled reciver to the cause i will be happy to put it to the test. LOL
 
#13 ·
I don't think anyone has actually taken the time and effort to accurize (is that a word?) a 7.62x39 round. I was really talking about the AK action itself, and a PPC round on an AK action would perhaps be the best all-around tack driver for the AK platform IMO.
I couldnt agree more. feeding may be a issue as the case is pretty straight, but a 6mm ppc round in a good barrel would quickly tell what the reciver/acton is capiable of. I would love to pull a barrel offf a known bench rest gun and stick it on a AK reciver and shoot the same ammo and see how good it can do. 6.5 grendal is starting to see some real promise as well. PPC rounds run some pretty high pressures so they would likely cause simular bolt thrust as a 7.62x51 nato round.
I have come close so many times to pulling the trigger on a 6mm ppc barrel or reamers its not funny, I want a little more speed than the 6mm ppc provides and ammo is way to pricey for varmit hunting. but A accurate gun is always interesting. probaly why I dont shoot my MI carbine much.
I know I asked before but is there any stamped AK,s with threaded barrel/trunions????
I would like to maybe do away with the barrel pin. possably could take a threaded reciver stub and use it.
 
#14 ·
I know I asked before but is there any stamped AK,s with threaded barrel/trunions????
I would like to maybe do away with the barrel pin. possably could take a threaded reciver stub and use it.
To the best of my knowledge, no. Every threaded barrel kit I know of went to a milled receiver.

You could always use a threaded bushing on for example a Romy trunion, and thread the barrel down to the Chinese pattern of 19mm and run with it. The barrel pin may have to be oversized to get enough bite on the barrel, but probably not.

I'm not sure why you would want to move away from the press fit? There is not a chance that headspace will creep on either one, so long as they are properly built. I could see a poorly drilled barrel pin hole causing issues if it was loose, but that would be the only reason for concern.
 
#15 ·
I'm not sure why you would want to move away from the press fit? There is not a chance that headspace will creep on either one, so long as they are properly built. I could see a poorly drilled barrel pin hole causing issues if it was loose, but that would be the only reason for concern.
It not the head space im worried about. its the tension and stresss that pressing a barrel in and then drilling a hole through the top half of the barrel then driving a pin a across it. I feel that this may cause stress on the barrel and cause it to walk/warp as it heats up. not to mention that the barrel is possably loaded unevenly as it is fired pressure is exerted against the top half of the barrel.
I relize that this may have absolutly no affect on accuracy in the real world, but many of the top bolt action builders dont even use tight threads or tourque the barrel down . they use a locktite type stuff to keep the barrel in place once it is threaded in. this is done to reduce barrel tension and stress.
A sleave is not a option as I dont want to reduce barrel OD if anything Id like to increase it.
 
#17 ·
I have a 1-9 twist now it shoots wolf 223 at about a 1.5 or worse group.

as I have said in past posts with reguard to 7.62x39 ammo is a big deal. the other problem its the loose chamber/neck and long free bore. I cant get a bullet any were near the rifeling if loaded to fit in the mag. I load it as long as it can be and still fit the mag. all my 7.62x39 AK,s shoot 1.5" or better 5 shoot groups at 100 several will do under a inch if I do my part. I am using winchester brass cci nato primers. and imr 4227 powder hornady 125 gr soft points. this is a load right out of the lyman book. the guns all have trigger work and optics. I have some .310 plastic tiped Vmax bullets I am going to try they shoud be pretty good. The factory chamber is not really good for accuracy it is designed for reliability with steel casesd ammo. If one were to fire form brass and seat the bullets out accuracy would likely be much better but then the gun would not feed and would surely jam. the other thing is you are dealing with a pencil thin barrel with 4 or more things pinned to it and a loose fitting muzzel device combined with pressure being applied by the gas tube and a large gas port as well. Its not a real pretty picture. I honestly think my 12.5" pistol possably shoots better than my 16" guns because there is less barrel to whip and move around, it is more ridgid and the shorter gas tube possably imparts less force on the barrel closer to the breach. My AMD 65 pistol is the most accurate 7.62x39 I have, consistant 1" groups, trigger work 3x9 scope of a very steady rest.

looking at the targets above I have to ask how often are you cleaning your barrel?? I start to loose accuracy after about 30-40 rounds in 223. you have over 45 rounds in that one target. wolf ammo burns pretty dirty. also you stated you have a 1-7 twist that will really spin a light bullet and any imperfections will be magnifed. a 1-7 with really good light bullets will still shoot pretty good as the more concentric bullet will not be affected as much.
 
#18 ·
I started out shooting the Wolf... ran a bunch through it (what you see on the target and then some) with no cleaning. Frustrated, not knowing if it was the rifle, mount or scope... I put up a fresh target and switched up the ammo (again, didn't clean anything). True, it's a far lighter bullet... but the results speak for itself. Your right, with as tight a twist as 1-7 the gr of the Wolf shouldn't be the issue. Either my rifle just didn't like it, or the ammo is just that bad and the Winchester that good.

If the lighter bullet magnifies imperfections then my groups should really improve with some heavier gr bullet, quality ammo. I've actually been looking for some off the shelf stuff just to try whenever I go to Cabelas or Gander Mt... but most of what they have isn't over 55gr.

The barrel on the 95 is actually pretty beefy, the low recoil impulse from the adjustable gas setting probably helps too.
 
#19 ·
are you sure you have a 1-7 twist?? A 1-7 twist is more for a 69gr and up bullet. the 1-7 twist in 223 came about for guys wanting to use heavy low drag bullets in 1000 meter and other long range shooting compitetion. fast twist barrels are said to have a shorter life as well.
A 1-7 twist will likely require more frequent cleaning intervals( just guessing here). I think black hills factory loads heavy bullets in match 223. if I had a 1-7 twist Id be trying the 77 grain match kings loaded as far out as the rifeling or the mag will allow.
I am only guessing here but the por quality wolf bullets are being spun to fast due to the fast twist the out of roundnes is likely hindering accuracy. a better quality 55 gr bullet will likely work out better. I really like the nosler balistic tip bullets 50 grain in my gun out to 400 yards.
 
#20 ·
Yep, positive. It's stamped on the barrel. '5.56 1/7'. Just Yugoslavian military, chrome lined M95 (M90) I built as a fixed stock. Seems to like that CXP1 varmint with the nosler bt rounds as well.

 
#21 ·
Nice gun wouldnt mind having it myself. that side mount scope may cause some of it. reciver flex will affect a side mount to some degree but It really should be minumal at 100. have you tried it with the flash surpressor removed??? again really nice build. I should do a traditional looking 223 some day
 
#22 ·
Thanks! It's a one of a kind so far as I know... don't know anybody else with exactly that set up.

I thought about that when I couldn't get it to group... receiver flex, the rail, the mount. I don't think the difference in groupings would be that dramatic though from one ammo to the next if it were just the flex vs bullet weight. Especially at 100yd like you say. Besides that, it's actually a pretty heavy, well built little beast with all the wood (like 11lbs w/empty mag). Reinforced trunnion, thicker gauge metal receiver and I think the rail actually helps to stiffen it. Low recoil, adjustable gas system... I don't think there would be enough flex to move my poi 5" back and forth across the target.

Like I said, I won't know for sure until I experiment with some heavier ammo of better quality. Next time I sit down to see how tight I can get the groups... I'll play around with removing the suppressor. There's a flat spring on there that keeps it from being 'wobbly' like your typical AK attachment... so it should remain accurate I should think, just like the AR's with the birdcage's are.
 
#23 ·
I don't think the difference in groupings would be that dramatic though from one ammo to the next if it were just the flex vs bullet weight
I agree on the above ammo is causing the big group. hand loading is a lot of fun and worth it. it would be cool to get that thing a little tighter than even the top picture. I dont hate AR,s but some of the owners rub me the wrong way it would be cool to have a stock appearing AK that would do 1/2" groups that looked like it came off the rack some were for $300. (yours is nicer than that). and smoke a non varmit AR.

you might want to try removing the lower hand guard and if possable freeing up the gas tube or make one to try that dont put pressure on the GB. also dont rest on the fore arm and try it. how bad is the trigger(#1 reason guys cant shoot a AK accuratly IMOA) polishing the trigger/hammer engagement areas and shiming away some of the creep by placing a shim under the rear of the trigger(do so at your own risk) can make a huge differance. clean the barrel every 30 shots.
 
#24 ·
The trigger is actually pretty nice, if I do say so. I always hit the mating surfaces of the G2's with a small file. If you do a good job of it, you can get a crisp clean 2 stage trigger out of it.

Actually, I'm sure I can pull better groups than the ones posted in the top target. At the time I shot that group, I'd already been shooting for awhile, frustration regarding the Wolf ammo, the heat... at the time I was just happy that I was getting decent groups and my scope on target. Next range trip should yield better results.

I hear you about certain elements that worship at the altar of the AR. You'd think their world would just implode if they had to admit that a 'common AK' might actually be competitive. I'm not even saying that the AK platform in general will be just as accurate as the AR platform (I think from an engineering point of view it physically can't be by design) ... but I'm tired of hearing about how inaccurate AK's are. "why, you'd might as well just THROW the bullets downrange.." How accurate is accurate enough? If an AR gets .5"moa and an AK gets 1"moa... isn't that still pretty dam accurate?? I think most of it is the ammo... nobody makes accurate 5.45 or x39. I would put my M95 up against any off the rack AR any day of the week though. With quality ammo... I'd say any off the rack 5.45 would compete with any govt profile off the rack AR (with comparable ammo).

The AK design can be made sub moa accurate without too dramatic of effort.... you just need all the right elements to come together. The same elements that are often taken for granted by the AR. All JMO, of course.
 
#25 ·
Im thinking of adding this element!!
Pumping up the .223: experiments with a self-loading .223 Ackley Improved | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

a 223 ackely improved can come close to 4000 fps and still shoot standard ammo for plinking. Im thinking 1-8 twist
the AR does seem to have a better lug engagement system(more percise) but other than that Im not so sure the ak is not better in some ways. an aluminum reciver is going to warp some as it warms up and the scope is mounted to the reciver so if it moves so does the point of impact. I have seen stainless recivers and composite recivers which might be better. I also read accounts of ar,s breaking bolts and cracking uppers and other issues. I can find one single failure of a propwerly assempled AK except for bad ammo issues or obstructed barrels. There is no argument a custom or high dollar AR can flat out shoot sub .5 or even .25 groups. the cost of these guns is often in the $2000-$3000 range also. My Ak will out shoot most of the shelf military style AR,s now and it is comparable to the ones in the $1000 -$1200 range. I havent even tried more than 4 differant bullets and 2 powders yet. I built it pulled a hand load out of the book loaded it up to max(shot great but blew primers) backed it off 1.5 grains and went hunting with that load the last two years. it does .5" 5 shot groups or BETTER. I have done several one hole 3 shot groups. likely in the .200 range. but for me the acid test is with a hot barrel in hunting situations. that means 10 rounds at steady pace.
think of the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions spent developing the AR to its current target/varmit configuration. some of those guns have $700+ barrels exotic alloy bolts and firing pins. 10 OZ triggers, custom fitted uppers skys the limit. compared that to guys like me with a $75 dollar savage take off barrel and a lathe. (nothing against savage best bang for the buck in a 223 bolt action varmit gun IMOA). there is not one product designed for the AK to really improve accuracy other than maybe a adjustable trigger and there not great. no custom barrels, or even a really decent RSB/scope mount. (I would love to see a replacement RSB that was designed to hold a weaver rail. All the AK accesories are clamp on stuff that makes the gun look bad ass but hurts accuracy. Ammo development of the 7.62x39 is almost non exstant. lucky to find two differant loads from most manufactures and then the bullets suck.
It would not hurt the AK,s rep to make the thing more accurate and competive. and more hunter accepted IMOA.
I have often wonderd if a accurised AK barrel assembly would sell just press it in and pin it type deal. it would come complete with a new gas block scope mount custom gas block adjustable, and some type of floating fore grip. no front sites, no hand guard retainer, just a good barrel that floates with a scope mount on the RSB. maybe in 223 for existing 223,s and some thing like a 22 or 6mm ppc or 6.5 grendal conversion for 7.62x39 guns that will use the stock bolt as is. the grendal is getting popular. and would be perfectly suited in a custom AK IMOA.
 
#26 ·
I agree with everything you said 1biggun... there's a reason for the switch to piston operated AR uppers. The AK certainly would seem (and proven to be) a more robust platform... I agree that it just hasn't been exploited to it's fullest (yet). It's day will come though. I've got to get into reloading... you know, I was at Gander Mnt. today and they didn't have any .223 over 55gr.
 
#27 ·
I was at Gander Mnt. today and they didn't have any .223 over 55gr.
I was there as well (madison wisconsin) and noticed the same thing, plus there prices are wacked out. I wouldnt buy there except for powder. If you are going to shoot much you need to reload. I hope you are keeping your old brass.
the other thing that occured to me is your gun possably has a 5.56 Nato vs 223 chamber. this means even more free bore and head space. I am not sure of this but I think the wolf is loaded to 223 specs at least that what the box says. In my rifle some of the foregn mill surplus brass nato stuff blows primers. possable due to bullet being into the rifling on my savage 223 barrels chamber. just something to think about, you stated your barrel was marked 223 1-7 however. I am not sure why a military AK would have a 223 chamber and not a 5.56 nato spec chamber? werent those built to shoot NATO spec ammo? My bulgy mags are marked 223 as well always wonderd about that?
The sad truth is the AK is bought by most as a cheap(was) to shoot assult style weapon and 90% of the time is just used for blasting cans and dirt clods.
There is no real market for a very accurate AK as the price would likely excede the AR if they were built that way. I got into building these because I wanted a cheap pistol to hunt in the shotgun/ pistol zone. I doubt that AMD 65 pistol build had more than $100 in it including the used scope. I likely would not have shelled out $300 for a kit as there are other options at that price range. As the cost of AK kits goes up, the AR becomes a better deal all the time. for $700-$800 I can likely snap a varmit AR together with a decent barrel and all the whistles and bells and shoot .5" groups. It is getting really tough to do a Good custom AK build for under $500 these days. If I didnt have kits from several years ago I wouldnt do it.
Its to bad Siaga does not have a heavy barreled target model for sale in the US, It would likley sell if it was under $500. all it would take for for them to do it would be a 20 guage GB on a decent heavy barrel with a tighter 223 chamber float the barrel(easy) and a better trigger and you would have a pretty decent gun. they could likely do it for less than $50 more than a standard one.
 
#28 ·
If it is stamped 5.56 then it is. What you are thinking about is the fact that the Saiga .223 barrels are stamped .223 but are actually 5.56. That was for the Russian law that states "no military stuff to be owned by civillians". So they stamped it .223 and everything is OK. That is what I've read, I haven't made a chamber casting to confirm the specs.
 
#29 ·
If it is stamped 5.56 then it is. What you are thinking about is the fact that the Saiga .223 barrels are stamped .223 but are actually 5.56. That was for the Russian law that states "no military stuff to be owned by civillians". So they stamped it .223 and everything is OK. That is what I've read, I haven't made a chamber casting to confirm the specs

I didnt know that.
I had heard they also some how mark the brass, once fired to make it possable to determine if it was shot in a military or civilean weapon.
I would have thought that being sold in The USA marked as a 223 it would have had a 223 spec chamber to pass all the SAMMI requirements (assuming there are requirements).
so does that mean the the BULGY mags I get that are stamped/marked 223 were made for the civilian market???
 
#30 ·
Yep, positive. It's stamped on the barrel. '5.56 1/7'. Just Yugoslavian military, chrome lined M95 (M90)
I would find some 5.56 nato ammo and see how it shoots. didnt the nato spec stuff get loaded with heavyier bullets as well? Thus the the need for more free bore.
seem like the article I read in the NRA magazine about the differances said that it was safe to shoot 223 in a 5.56 chamber but not the opposite, and that the 223 was usualy not as accurate in a 5.56 chamber. I believe this was due to the losser head space and or shorter bullet seating.
 
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