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I have obtained a 9x39 SP5 round

29K views 161 replies 21 participants last post by  allesennogwat 
#1 ·
After 5 years of searching, a friend pulled through! I have an SP5 (ball) cartridge and as a bonus what I am told is a VSS Vintorez magazine! :thumbup1:

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza/9x39/9x39_caliber.htm

No more guess work. I am measuring the cartridge so I can make a diagram, then I'll make a reamer. I may actually submit this to a reamer mfr just so they have it on their list. Funds are kind of tight right now so that will be later down the road.

More pics to follow.



 
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#35 ·
The Groza is unsuppressed, but they did make some subsonic 5.45, I'd assume it's weak as heck...
Besides, you can always change the caliber later, the chamber dimensions are unknown, other than from the fired case he got, but that isn't too accurate...
 
#39 ·
but they did make some subsonic 5.45, I'd assume it's weak as heck
man it would have to be really weak the heaviest bullet I know of in 223 ( slightly bigger than 5.45) is 90 grain and even then the it would be imposable to get that to cycle when loaded supsonic. some 50 grain 22 long rifle is subsonic and that is with the same weight as a normal 223 round and tere is no way its going to cycle any AK style action.
 
#42 ·
Regardless I think the idea of the project is to make a true 9x39 build.

YEP


NOT TO SPEAK FOR HC POOKIE BUT HE HAS BEEN WORKING ON A 9X39 BUILD FOR A FEW YEARS NOW (SEE HIS OTHER THREAD) AND THAT IS LIKELY WHY HE HAS OBTAINED THE 9X39 ROUND.

ANY ONE CAN BUILD UP A CLONE BASED ON THE 5.45X39, 223 OR 7.62X39 BUT THEN THEY WOULD NOT BE POSTING IT IN THE CALIBUR CONVERSION FORUM.

THE 9X39 IS IDEAL FOR SUPRESSION AS WELL AS HUNTING BIGGER GAME OR POSSABLY AS A ENTRY WEAPON. THIS IS A GREAT IDEA AND I HOPE HE PULLS IT OFF. AND I HAVE NO DOUBT HE WILL.


, the chamber dimensions are unknown, other than from the fired case he got, but that isn't too accurate...
HAVING A ORIGINAL CASING EVEN THOUGH FIRED IS A GREAT ASSET IN REVERSE ENGINERING ONE. THERE ARE NO REAMERS AND DIES AVALIABLE SO HE IS DOING IT BASICALY FROM SCRATCH. TAKING THE NECK ANGLE AND DATUM LINES, OAL ECT FROM THIS ROUND IS A NO BRAINER AND WILL TAKE A LOT OF GUESS WORK OUT OF IT.
THE TRUTH IS HE COULD HAVE A REAMER BUILT DIRECTLY FROM THIS CASE BY ADDING A FEW THOUSANDS. THE NECK CAN BE DETERMNED FROM THE DIAMITER OF THE BULLET + THE THICKNESS OF WHAT EVER PARENT BRASS HE IS USING. THE DIES CAN BE BUILT BY SUBTRACTING A FEW THOUSANDS FROM THE SPENT CASE. OBVIOUSLY A UNFIRED ROUND WOULD BE BETTER. BUT AMMO ISINT AVALIABLE ANYWAY SO WHAT EVER HE COMES UP WITH WILL BE JUST FINE. THERE IS NO REALL NEED FOR HIS CHAMBER TO EVEN BE ABLE TO CHAMBER THE ORIGINAL UNFIRED AMMO.

JUST THE FACT HE HAS IT IS COOL TRY TO FIND ONE YOUR SELF IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME. I LOOKED MYSELF SEVERAL YEARS AGO HOPING TO BE ABLE TO BUILD MY OWN OR BE ABLE TO AID HC POOKIE. IF AND WHEN HE GETS THE BUGS WORKED OUT ON THIS I WILL HAPPIELY COPY HIS WORK ON THIS ONE IF HE CHOOSES TO POST THE SPECS. PERSONALY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE CASE CAPACITY. POSSABLY THE 444????? NECKED DOWN TO .358 RIFLE BULLETS BUT THATS ANOTHER THREAD.

AS FAR AS SUBSONIC 5.45X39 AMMO CYCLING IN ANY GAS OPERATED SA WEAPON ID LIKE TO SEE IT. AND FOR WHAT ITS WORTH NOT ALL SURPRESSORS ARE USED WITH SUBSOINIC AMMO. ID BE WILLING TO BET THAT MUCH OF IT IS FOR SOUND REDUCTION OF SUPERSONIC AMMO FOR USE IN INSIDE ENTRY AS WELL AS MUCH OF EUROPE MAINLY FOR HEARING ISSUES AND NOT PISSING OFF THE NEIGHBORS.

ITS TOUGH TO GET EVEN 7.62X39 SUBSONIC TO CYCLE WITH LESS THAN A 200 GRAIN BULLET TRUST ME IVE TRIED. FWIW I DONT HAVE A SURPRESSOR BUT i HAVE LOADED AMMO FOR PEOPLE WHO LEGALY DO AS WELL AS THEY MAKE GREAT PLINKER ROUNDS. JUST BECAUSE YOU SEE A PICTURE OF A SUPRESSOR ON A WEAPON DONT MEAN THE AMMO IS. OR DO WE KNOW THAT THE SUBSONIC AMMO IS CYCLING IT. I SHOOT 170 GRAIN SUBSONIC 7.62X39 ALL THE TIME LOADED BY HAND.

THOSE ARE COOL PICTURES DO WE KNOW WHAT THE CALIBURE IS OF THAT WEAPON FOR SURE???
 
#45 ·
This is a great thread!

I have been toying with the idea of a VSS look alike for some time, but I had been working under the asumption that a 300 whisper or a 338 whisper ( built on a Saiga 308 host)or a pistol caliber would be the way to go. The idea of actually making the 9x39 is very exciting.
 
#46 ·
This is a great thread!

I have been toying with the idea of a VSS look alike for some time, but I had been working under the asumption that a 300 whisper or a 338 whisper ( built on a Saiga 308 host)or a pistol caliber would be the way to go. The idea of actually making the 9x39 is very exciting.
you wont need to waste a 308 sagia bolt or the whole gun. you can simply open up a 7.62x39 bolt face. a 300 wisper is a good round and it has been on my radar as well. if and when Hc Pookie posts the specs and dimensions on could simply have a reamer and dies made for the 9x39. however the fsact that there is no ammo avaliabe whats the point??? much better to make your own version that will use common bullets and avaliable cases. now if a true 9x39 russian round can be formed from 7.62x39 then might as well just copy the original.
 
#58 ·
Reportedly, the SP6 was designed after the previous AP rounds were ruining barrels due to the lack of soft metals in the bore. The result was the SP6's thin lead "jacket" around the smaller steel core.

I don't think the jacket would separate as you describe. Once through the bore, it would be swaged tighter due to the rifling. One would think that would make the jacket more prone to stay with the core.
 
#57 ·
Hey those are some nice pics! I'll d-load them and add them to my site. I'm going to try to get in touch with my source either this week or next (you know who you are! :D) to see if I can get some more rounds to confirm the measurements. Hate to base the chamber reamer off of only one example...

Once I get a couple more rounds to confirm the size, I'm going to see about setting up the lathe to make a reamer. I have three (oil quench) O1 steel rods ready to go! :D

I can do everything EXCEPT the reamer flutes. If I only knew someone who had a parting head on their mill!
 
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