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I have obtained a 9x39 SP5 round

28K views 161 replies 21 participants last post by  allesennogwat 
#1 ·
After 5 years of searching, a friend pulled through! I have an SP5 (ball) cartridge and as a bonus what I am told is a VSS Vintorez magazine! :thumbup1:

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/Groza/9x39/9x39_caliber.htm

No more guess work. I am measuring the cartridge so I can make a diagram, then I'll make a reamer. I may actually submit this to a reamer mfr just so they have it on their list. Funds are kind of tight right now so that will be later down the road.

More pics to follow.



 
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#144 ·
Id just fire form your brass in the dies with a set up like seen in the calibur conversion book its about 6 cents or so to do this. I would not mess with a $160 dollar die to make brass unless your planng on doing thousands of rounds and it likely a messy deal.

I am curious as to why you just didnt get a reamer to cut your own dies for around $125 and then you would be able to make and sell dies if you chose to down the road??
 
#146 ·
I'm going to have check my records to see if I have the lengths between angles but today a quick check reveals,

bullet diameter = 9.25 mm (SP-5) (SP-6 = 9.26 mm)

cartridge length = 56.02 mm

case length = 38.76 mm (SP-5) (SP-6 = 38.78 mm)

rim diameter = 12.43 mm

diameter of case next to wide end of shoulder = 10.36 mm

diameter of case neck = 10.14 mm

bullet weight = 16.1 grams (SP-5) (SP-6 = 16.2 grams)

powder charge = 0.50 grams (SP-5) (SP-6 = 0.60 grams)

velocity = 290 m/s (SP-5) (SP-6 = 305 m/s)

energy = 673 joules (SP-5) (SP-6 = 706 joules)

I need to find the distance between the 10.36 mm diameter and the 10.14 mm diameter to figure out the shoulder angle. I do have this distance for 7.62x39 and I may have the info somewhere for 9x39.
 
#147 · (Edited)
Pookie, you need to see this site! @Mail.Ru: Photo Shooter
All sorts of pics of russkie guns that I've never seen before! Tons of the 9x39 guns too! Detailed internal pics and everything!
9A-91
VSK-94 (sniper 9A-91)
AS-VAL
Groza
VSS

ETA: So far I've saved all the high-res groza pictures, I can make a torrent of them and email the tracker file to anyone who wants it, so if you want the pics [without all the right click-save as BS I just went through] send me a PM.
I'm gonna be saving the other interesting ones later on. There are just so many of them and my wrists are tired from just the 183 groza pics!
 
#149 · (Edited)
I saved the biiiig resolution ones, nice huge 2000x2000 pictures. I'm leaving for the weekend in 2 hours or so, so if you want the torrent tracker sent now send me a PM with an email quick.

ETA: example of the size I saved them in: http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/530/s-531.jpg

ETA2: I just bit the bullet and registered at TPB and uploaded it. Pictures of OC-14 Groza (download torrent) - TPB
Don't let the 0 seeders scare you off, I'm uploading it.

ETA3: Made a new thread rather than taking over your thread, here it is with the 9A-91 pics too.
http://www.gunco.net/forums/f108/rare-russian-gun-pics-56171/?=#post594723
 
#150 ·
Update - my CC got charged for the dies! That puts their 4 month lead time down to the day. Not sure if they will give me a tracking number or not. The dies are going to be stamped "9x39 Russian".

I've got a box of Nosler 9.3mm 250gr ballistic tip bullets to start with. I need to work up some good loads. The loads from the '93 issue of American Rifleman ".35x39" use 2400 powder, which will be my starting point. There are also some work I can borrow from the Accurate Reloading forums as there is a similar cartridge known as the "Gremlin" which is basically a .35 remington short. I need to look at those discussions again to get some good load ideas.

I may also try some subsonic loads since this caliber was designed from the beginning to be a subsonic round. A can would make this a great combo deal! :)

I guess I need to get cracking on the actual gun build now! I still need to profile the barrel blank.
 
#152 ·
Yes I did :) And a headspace no-go gauge.

The one thing I don't have that may be a good thing to get is one of the Lee collet-style crimp dies. I have one for the 7.62x39 which I can drill out if I measure the others to see how much to drill out the collet. May not need it, just have to see how it loads. This round is not going to be a long-distance round with the subsonic loads, so everything I can do to help improve accuracy is going to help! Also thinking about picking up one of those Hornady bullet concentricity run-out gauges.
 
#155 ·
Not enough demand. With no commercial ammo supply there never will be. Oh and besides, the power numbers make it about as powerful as a .45ACP. Without a suppressor it is a pretty crappy caliber.

Hell, I'm surprised reamers will be made, but then again, wildcat reamers are commonly made...

That said, it is still a really cool caliber IMO, if only for the almost silent armor piercing capability.
 
#156 ·
Arrived! Ready to do some work now :cool:








I disagree with the idea it will be a 'crappy' caliber. I am not bound by the requirements to make it subsonic, so I can bump up the velocity to make it more of a 'thumper' round.

It is definitely a niche round, however. Two different audiences - those who want the 'original' subsonic flavor for a 9mm Whisper, and those who want a brush round - slow and heavy but definitely more than a .45 ACP. The original subsonic won't be enough to deform the bullet. 250gr is the original. The retrieved bullet I have is barely deformed after shooting into a dirt berm, thus little to no expansion.

"Hot" loads could be described as a 9mm PPC. The PPC-level performance should be more like a .45 WinMag, or even a .357/44 Bain & Davis or a .357 AutoMag. Think 9mm PPC and you have a very good approximation.
 
#162 ·
9 mm cartridge "SP-5" with a bullet with steel core (7N8)

The characteristics of the cartridge

Caliber 9 × 39

Cartridge length, mm 55.6 56.2 ...

Weight cartridge, g 23.2 23.8 ...

The characteristics of a powder charge

Type of gunpowder, smokeless, Nitric. Mark P-45 powder

Weight of powder charge, g 0.5 ... 0.6

Loading density, g/cm3 0.443

Maximum pressure of powder gases, 285.0 MPa

The shape and size of grains of gunpowder tube

outer diameter, mm 0.7 ... 0,912-1

inner diameter, 0.10 mm ... 0.15

length, mm 0.7 ... 1.1

The characteristics of the bullet

Type bullet shell

Bullet weight, g 16.0 16.2 ...

The length of the bullet, 36.0 mm ... 36.2

The diameter of the bullet lead, 9.22 mm ... 9.27

Lateral load bullets, 24.0 g/cm2

The ballistic coefficient bullets m2/kg 2.1

Bullet jacket material steel-plated red brass

Mass of the shell bullet, g 4.5 ... 4.7

Bullet core material steel St 10

The mass of the core bullet, 3.1 ... 3.2 g

Features sleeves

The shape and type of bottle liners, wafer

Weight cartridge with primer, 7.0 g 6.7 ...

Case length, 38.4 mm ... 38.7

Free volume sleeves, 2.53 cm3

The volume of cases with planted a bullet, 1.353 cm3

Thermowell material coated steel finish. The method of mounting the bullet and crimped tight fit sleeve edges dulcitol

For more information

Cross-sectional area of ​​the barrel .663 (rifle 6P29), cm2

Muzzle velocity (rifle 6P29), m / s 285 ... 295

Muzzle energy bullets (rifle 6P29) J 649.8 704.9 ...

9 mm cartridge "SP-6" with armor-piercing bullet (7N9)

The characteristics of the cartridge

Caliber 9 × 39

Cartridge length, mm 55.6 56.2 ...

Weight cartridge, g 23.2 23.8 ...

The characteristics of a powder charge

Tin powder, smokeless, Nitric. Mark P-45 powder

Weight of powder charge, g 0.5 ... 0.6

Loading density, g/cm3 0.558

Maximum pressure of powder gases, 285.0 MPa

The shape and size of grains of gunpowder tube

outer diameter, 0.7 mm ... 0.9

inner diameter, 0.10 mm ... 0.15

length, mm 0.7 ... 1.1

The characteristics of the bullet

Type bullet soft point

Bullet weight, g 16.0 16.2 ...

The length of the bullet, 40.5 mm ... 41.0

The diameter of the bullet lead, 9.22 mm ... 9.27

Lateral load bullets, 24.0 g/cm2

The ballistic coefficient bullets m2/kg 2.1

Shell material Puni steel-plated red brass

Mass of the shell bullet, 3.9 g 4.3 ...

Material Tool Steel core bullets U12A

The mass of the core bullet, 9.2 g 9.5 ...

Features sleeves

The shape and type of bottle liners, wafer

Weight cartridge with primer, 7.0 g 6.7 ...

Case length, 38.4 mm ... 38.7

Free volume sleeves, 2.53 cm3

The volume of cases with a bullet planted, 1.02 cm3

Thermowell material coated steel finish. The method of mounting the bullet and crimped tight fit sleeve edges dulcitol

For more information

Cross-sectional area of ​​the barrel .663 (rifle 6P29), cm2

Muzzle velocity (rifle 6P29), m / s 285 ... 295

Muzzle energy bullets (rifle 6P29) J 649.8 704.9 ...

The top of the bullet is painted in black

9 mm cartridge "PAB-9" with armor-piercing bullet

The characteristics of the cartridge

Caliber 9 × 39

Cartridge length, mm 55.6 56.2 ...

Weight cartridge, g 23.2 23.8 ...

The characteristics of a powder charge

Type of gunpowder, smokeless, Nitric. Mark P-45 powder

Weight of powder charge, g 0.5 ... 0.6

Loading density, g/cm3 0.663

Maximum pressure of powder gases, 285.0 MPa

The shape and size of grains of gunpowder tube

outer diameter, 0.7 mm ... 0.9

inner diameter, 0.10 mm ... 0.15

length, mm 0.7 ... 1.1

The characteristics of the bullet

Type bullet soft point

Bullet weight, g 16.0 16.2 ...

The length of the bullet, 42.2 mm ... 42.7

The diameter of the bullet lead, 9.22 mm ... 9.27

Lateral load bullets, 24.0 g/cm2

The ballistic coefficient bullets m2/kg 2.1

Bullet jacket material steel-plated red brass

Mass of the shell bullet, 4.0 ... 4.5 g

Material Tool Steel core bullets U12A

The mass of the core bullet, 9.2 g 9.5 ...

Features sleeves

The shape and type of bottle liners, wafer

Weight cartridge with primer, 7.0 g 6.7 ...

Case length, 38.4 mm ... 38.7

Free volume sleeve 233 cm3

The volume of cases with planted a bullet, 0.905 cm3

Thermowell material steel, lacquered

The method of mounting the bullet and crimped tight fit, edges dulcitol sleeve

For more information

Cross-sectional area of ​​the barrel .663 (rifle 6P29), cm2

Muzzle velocity (rifle 6P29), m / s 285 ... 295

Muzzle energy bullets (rifle 6P29) J 649.8 704.9 ...

The top of the bullet is painted black and

9 mm training cartridge "SP-6UCH"

The characteristics of the cartridge

Caliber 9 × 39

Cartridge length, mm 55.6 56.2 ...

Weight cartridge, g 22.7 23.2 ...

The characteristics of the bullet

Type bullet shell

Bullet weight, g 16.0 16.2 ...

The length of the bullet, 36.0 mm ... 36.2

The diameter of the bullet lead, 9.22 mm ... 9.27

Bullet jacket material steel-plated red brass

Mass of the shell bullet, g 4.5 ... 4.7

Bullet steel core material St10

The mass of the core bullet, 3.1 ... 3.2 g

Features sleeves

The shape and type of bottle liners, wafer

Weight cartridge with primer, 7.0 g 6.7 ...

Case length, 38.4 mm ... 38.7

Thermowell material coated steel finish. Method of attachment bullet tight fit, and 2-row crimp sleeve dulcitol.
 
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