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Thread: The .41?? - A Question for your .44?? Conversions

  1. #11
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    The reason I cut it at 1.700 is that is the length that the 44 Ballard Extra Long is cut at before opening it up. It's based on the .220 Swift, but should be close enough to get a safe starting load. Plus it left some OAL room for different bullets in the AK mag.

    A .41 or .357 would be a good choice too. I just grabbed a .44 bullet because I had them on hand.
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  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    The reason I cut it at 1.700 is that is the length that the 44 Ballard Extra Long is cut at before opening it up. It's based on the .220 Swift, but should be close enough to get a safe starting load. Plus it left some OAL room for different bullets in the AK mag.
    I saw that you had posted that in the 44??? thread. wasnt trying to miss speak for you. LOL. I came up with my length by fitting the bullet and case to the mag.

    I want to try to blow some 7.62x39 cases straight and see if you can in fact load a 41bullet into one. this would require no bolt mods might be able to use a 41 mag die to size at least part of it but would likely require a custom die. how ever it could likely be made from a die blank on a lathe as it is a straight case. HMMM

  3. #13
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    look on page 322 of hanloaders manual of cartridge converson. the 41-44cl is almost perfect (case wise) execpt it is rimmed. the head diamiter however is only .458
    this could be made into rimless round by using possably 7.62x39 blown straight (sligtly to small of a base or 6.5 manlicher brass with a rim of .449 OR FROM 35 REMINGTON BLOWN STRAIGHT AND IT HAS A PERFECT HEAD DIA OF .458. ALSO THE 35 REMINGTON WILL GIVE A STRAIGHT CASE OF 1.53 IF CUT DOWN AT THE NECK. THIS WOULD YEILD A .41X1.5 ROUND WITH OUT EXPANDING THE NECK EXACTLY WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR.

    Says the 41-44 CL is formed with using a combination of 44 mag dies and 41 mag dies. I think this would be the way to go for a fit in a AK mag straight case .41.

    this thing would haul ass likely around 2,200 +fps (guessing

  4. #14
    Gunco Regular Gunter's Avatar
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    Don't know if to post this here or in the 44??? thread. Read this thread about the 444 rimless. Reading his post, he fire forms full length cases and then trims them off to the "imprint" left at the case mouth. I'm a little slow on the up take here...what/how headspaces/keeps the case in place while forming?

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  5. #15
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    He rams the full case into the chamber, even into the bore, fire forms them (probably with Bullseye) and then cuts along the "crease" left by the end of the chamber. He probably has rifling creases along the very top edge of the cartridge!
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  6. #16
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    if you get your expander to work correctly I dont think you will need to fire form any thing. The bullet sizer is going to expand the mouth to its final size and to be honest even if you cant get the case expanded in the middle it will still head space on the end of the chamber. after it does fire it will be perfect except for possably needing to be trimed very slightly. to make this round (44??? 444rimless ) all you need to do is expand most of the case cut to the correct length so it will stay against the bolt and fire. or if possable and likley better and cheaper over expand slightly and just run through the dies as normal and recheck case length when done. i doubt brass will grow much when it is hot against a lip in the chamber were can it go??

  7. #17
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    if you get your expander to work correctly I dont think you will need to fire form any thing. The bullet sizer is going to expand the mouth to its final size and to be honest even if you cant get the case expanded in the middle it will still head space on the end of the chamber. after it does fire it will be perfect except for possably needing to be trimed very slightly. to make this round (44??? 444rimless ) all you need to do is expand most of the case cut to the correct length so it will stay against the bolt and fire. or if possable and likley better and cheaper over expand slightly and just run through the dies as normal and recheck case length when done. i doubt brass will grow much when it is hot against a lip in the chamber were can it go??
    It would flow forward just like any pistol cartridge... trimming the brass to length is the only thing needed. Full length sizing MAY be needed depending on how much the brass forms to the chamber. If it suddenly gets difficult to chamber, then you would need a full-length sizer die.
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  8. #18
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    It would flow forward just like any pistol cartridge... trimming the brass to length is the only thing needed. Full length sizing MAY be needed depending on how much the brass forms to the chamber. If it suddenly gets difficult to chamber, then you would need a full-length sizer die.
    to be honest I havent reloaded any rimless pistol ammo so I dont have any experiance with it. your likely correct the brass will have to flow some were. I expect to full length resize and at least check OAL every reload. keeping the pressures down in 45,000PSI + range should give pretty good brass live out of a 30-06 case IMOA.

    while on this thread about the .41 it really seems like if a 7.62x39 case can be blown/expanded straight to take a .41 bullet it would be a no brainer and possably easyest wildcat to build for a AK as tere would be no bolt mods and a 223 mad would likely work as well. the round should easly exceed the 41 magnum that is a great hunting round by the way.

  9. #19
    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    I'm making a guess on the full-length sizing, because all of my pistol dies have a full-length sizer/deprimer die, and they only size the OUTSIDE of the cartridge... which makes sense because it would expand slightly when firing. I know that my dad's hand cannons sometimes get difficult to extract bullets from the cylinders, AND recently I got to shoot his Marlin converted to .357/44 Bain & Davis... some were difficult to extract because they were newly sized and had not been fireformed. Now on an AK, I would expect that huge charging handle to be able to extract the cases by hand anyway, but I think most of us have experienced an extraction failure before... that could be the telltale that they are loaded too hot!

    I'm getting more and more interested in this round, and I've done some more research. Any thought on using the .284 brass like the .45 Bushmaster does? How much extra case capacity does that brass provide? Worth it or not?
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  10. #20
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    the 284 is almost the same od as a magnum round. a necked down 284 to 41 would make a pretty fast round. what have you seen for doner barrels in .41??

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