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Thread: BLOW BACK IDEAS W LESS AK PARTS

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Default BLOW BACK IDEAS W LESS AK PARTS

    I have for a while been wanting to do a blow back rifle. the price of kits have gottten ski high and by the time you spend $200 for a AK kit and possably another $75 for a sunomi kit to rob the barrel and mag out of its not hardley worth it.

    After thinking about it and looking at the 22 LR Ak trunions and parts I was starting to think why not just build my own trunions and other parts and skip the whole need for a AK kit???

    A front trunion is only a block of steel to hold the barrel. now I would plan on getting a little more creative with it and have possably milled in scope rails ect. A blow back really dosent need a gas tube, piston, gas block doing nothing so why not git rid of the weight. this would also allow you to get the sights or scope closer to the barrel. ( draw back of the AK IMOA). the trunion could have extra deep larger OD rivet/ screw holes to eleminate any issues with the screw builds are no good people. this would make assembly really easie also would make a take down build really simple as well. It would be USA made as well

    THE reciver can still be a normal AK/tapco shell or I have seen the wones made for the Sunomi mag well. It would hold a original AK FGC. every one has non USA FGC,s laying around an there cheap if you dont.
    the rails could be made heavier/more solid and act as a better guide for the now missing gas piston, as I plan on doing away with the factory carrier as well.

    The carrier could still be an original but with prices going up. I would make my own. Its really just another block of steel with a hole in it to hold the bolt and some groves to fit the new above mentioned heavier rails. add a charging handel and weld or pin in a original bolt (the one part I havent figured out how to build easly) they are still resonably cheap and avaliable. the custom carrier could be made in differant weights or have provisions for adjuting the weight for tuning it to a certain calibur. It would be USA made

    the Bolt would have to be original. possably have the rail groves opend up or not. I have no firm idea in my headon how to make one from scratch or a cheaper alternitve. Im open for sugestions and also looking for a AK .22 LR bolt as well to examine and use in a possable 17 hmr build. If any one has one or knows of the avalibilty Im looking???????. I was thinking of a original bolt just placed it a hole of a custom carrer and possably pined,bolted or welded in place.

    THE REAR TRUNION and recoil spring could be original. they are getting harder to find and to be honest Id like to get the sights down lower so I was thinking of a just a block of steel again made to hold a a stock and a place for a spring and possably a GUIDE ROD through the spring going through the carrer to the front trunion. this way the carrrier would not need the whole spring pocket and be possably easier to make. It seems to me the spring could be about 1/2" lower allowing a lowere dust cover and lowere sight plane.

    DUST COVER could simply stock on a original carrer, reartrunion build, OR a simple sheet metal channel made from scratch on a brake. I see after market dust covers with scope rails cheap from time to time and they are still avalible original cheap but prices keep going up.

    BARREL sources are now almost without limit as the front trunon is no longer restricted to a 22 or 23 MM OD. Any sunomi, Iuzie,pistol , bare blank, there are hundreds of take of rifle barrels ect out there. questionable sleeves would not be needed with a custom trunion. Im suprised some one hasent made a blow back after market trunion already.

    MAGS. sky is the limit., there are already pre made sunomi mag well an would be a good choice for a 9mm, there are 1911 45 auto drums avalible (american made as well). Im sitting on a few Sunomi kits so I will be doing a 9mm at some point with a drum. I also like the Rugger 10-22 mags for a possable .22 LR build (cheap and US made). I would find away to make a trigger guard as the originals are drying up as well.

    STOCKS, PISTOL GRIPS, ECT. with the reduction of American made parts and loss of the gas piston almost any stock grip combo will work.

    I am mainly thinking out loud here. and hoping to hear constructive ideas. The custom front trunion makes the most sence to me, and would be easy to make on a mill and not impossable to make from 1 1/4" solid on just a drill press.

    WHAT ARE THE LIMITS OF CALIBURS/ PRESSURES IN A BLOW BACK???? 45 AUTO ?? CAN A 357 0R 44 45 AUTO MAG BE DONE??

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Derailing my own topic, but I agree about making your own blowback trunion. I looked real hard at the Bizon assembly (still on my todo list!) and frankly the trunion is as simple as it can be - a rectangle with two big holes and some holes for the rivets! A chunk of steel that is about 1.5" wide x 1" long x 2" tall should work for that.

    That steel will be really hard on cutting tools. I shaved the sides of a receiver stub for a trunion for someone a while back, and I had to carefully grind and file the sides. I would not want to see what it does to drill bits! Once you get past the surface hardness you should be OK, but the amount you would need to remove would not be enough to get past that point I think. Can't remember now... just remember doing it

    The trunion doesn't have to be too hard - remember the locking lugs are the important piece and they apparently rely on surface area more than anything else. Think of how many locking lugs you've seen that get peened by mis-aligned rails or something. Heck, my Chinese 7.62 has peened lugs! Remember Winn's toothpick test - the trunion really doesn't even bear much of the recoil load. My point being, you could weld that hole up no problem. I for one don't like the idea of threads because it is a PITA to thread a barrel. At least with my setup, it would be.

    That .22 trunion could probably work for a 5.45 trunion if the 5.45 bolt locks up.

    Blowback really doesn't use the locking lugs, if you'll recall the Uzi or the Bizon bolt assembly, technically there is no carrier because the bolt and carrier are actually one piece. Since the 9mm is comparatively light, a chunk of steel with a recess for the case rim cut into it would work. It would be really easy to build.

    OK back on topic...

    Need a reamer. I don't know where exactly to find them cheaper than $100. Since I'm most likely going to build two different 45-70 builds, I can justify it since the rental fee alone would be nearly that much for 2 barrels.
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    Today, 02:42 PM #44 (permalink)
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    I think that the barrel hole for the 22 trunnion is higher than a standard trunnion. The 22 bolt just rode on the top rails and didn't have a set of lower rails (IIRC).
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    I hope its OK to move those posts here???????????

    Bl
    Bowback really doesn't use the locking lugs, if you'll recall the Uzi or the Bizon bolt assembly, technically there is no carrier because the bolt and carrier are actually one piece. Since the 9mm is comparatively light, a chunk of steel with a recess for the case rim cut into it would work. It would be really easy to build.
    exactly what im thinking.

    I think that the barrel hole for the 22 trunnion is higher than a standard trunnion. The 22 bolt just rode on the top rails and didn't have a set of lower rails (IIRC).
    HMMM not sure a original hammer would hit it but moving the barrel up is an interesting Idea. I was thinking of moving the recoil spring down some or even to one side. I would like to get a scope or sight down closer to the barrel.
    I really wish I had a 22 lr to examine. MY 8 year old is a littl to young for one for XMASS LOL. I was thinking of basicaly a 22 AK but with bigger parts for a 9mm.
    are there any sources for 22 LR rommy parts. I have seen german kits ($800)

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    for whAT it sound like yor trying to do, i wouldnt even bother going with the ak receiver or bolt/carrier design. sounds like your just trying to complicate things making the receiver and carrier look like an ak when your making all of the parts from scratch anyway.

    all im getting from the op is "i want to use an ak fcg in a scratch build" !!!!

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    The AK is a known platform. Besides, there are several AK pattern rifles built into blowback from the factory. All the Bizon versions immediately come to mind. Start with what you know
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    for whAT it sound like yor trying to do, i wouldnt even bother going with the ak receiver or bolt/carrier design. sounds like your just trying to complicate things making the receiver and carrier look like an ak when your making all of the parts from scratch anyway.

    all im getting from the op is "i want to use an ak fcg in a scratch build" !!!!

    thats almost basicaly it. one could use as much or as little as they felt they could handel.

    A AK reciver is easy to build for $15-$35 and we all have the jigs its just lots simpler. it is pre fitted for the FGC and selector so why reinvent the wheel for tha part it. there are pre made flats for a premade sunomi mag well so it seems like it would be a no brainer to use them. a AK stock would work easyer as well as the pistol grip,

    A bent square chanel could be used ( once made a sguare AK reciver). the AK bent blank is just simpler so why not use it???? . my main idea is a scrath built front trunion with the hopes of not needing an entire kit. if bbolts and carrers were not going for more than what a whole kit was selling for I wouldnt bother with the rest.

    one could sort of equate it to a custom upper for an AR lowerer

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    the German .22 LR trunion does appear to have the barrel raised. this must mean the FGC is differant some how. it would certanil make the sight plane better. no place for a gas tube an piston as well. I almost orderd one the other day little to pricey.

    http://www.aa-ok.com/images/product_...2865/ak222.jpg
    german 22 trainer barrel is higher low sight plane would be great in a 9mm or a 45.

    $800 to get a kit. got to admitt I would like to have it however.
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    imo, use a tube for the receiver. make the bolt round. bend a channel to weld/pin/screw on the bottom to hold the ak fcg.

    round is a much easier shape to make. the ch could locate it in the tube. no jigs required. if you do have one, use it to bend the channel for hte fcg.

    it just sounds to me like your going through alot of extra trouble just to use an ak recoil spring (which prob wont be strong enough anyway) and buttstock.

    ive made an ak 9mm pistol, getting the thing to work on it was not easy. ive made a scratch build using a suomi bolt. it was simple. imo, its not that easy to get the ak receiver to reliably shrink down to 9mm size.

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    ive made a scratch build using a suomi bolt. it was simple. imo, its not that easy to get the ak receiver to reliably shrink down to 9mm size.
    got any picks of the bolt modifcations on the sunomi????

    I assume your talking closed bolt configuration??
    It was my understading that the bolt was made of a pretty hardend material and tough to mill.

    I was actually considering making the sunmoi bolt square and converted to semi auto fire bolt closed and running it in a AK reciver.

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