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AK from 7.62X39 to 7.62X51 (.308) or higher

6K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  muttman 
#1 ·
Hello to everyone who loves guns!! I'm new to the gun building world, and I'm starting my first AK build out of an AMD 65. I have someone that has built one before that can help me, but my next build will be more difficult. I want to be able to use an AK for hunting, but have heard that it good for about 100 to 200 yards. I want to increase its range and accuracy. My guess is that a higher caliber and longer barrel will help me accomplish this. Does anybody have some helpful info on how to do this, or weather this is even possible. Thanks for any help that anyone can give me.:help2:
 
#2 ·
WELCOME. WHAT ARE YOU HUNTING?? BIG GAME OR SMALL??
WELL TO START YOU CAN READ THE LAST 3 OR 4 PAGES HERE BUT TO GET TO MOST OF THE DISSCUSSION ON THE CONVERSION READ HERE WERE I WAS AT 4 YEARS AGO ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS. WITH THE PRICE OF KITS A SAIGA 308 IS LIKELY EASIER AND THE SAME PRICE PLUS IT HAS THREE LUG BOLT. IT WILL TAKE SOME WORK TO MAKE THESE/ANY AK TYPE REALLY ACCURATE AS WELL. YOU CAN LIKELY BUY A REMINGTON OR BROWNING AUTO OR EVEN A AR 10 BASED 308, FOR WHAT A TRUE TAKE INTO THE WOODS AND SERIOUSLY HUNT AK WILL COST TO GET RIGHT. iM TALKING AT LEAST 1.25" GROUPS OR BETTER AT 100 YARDS TO BE ACCURATE AT OVER 200 FOR DEER OR OTHER BIGGER GAME. LINKS BELOW.

http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/308-ak-18443/

GOOD INFO HERE AS WELL 243 IS SAME JUST NECKED DOWN

http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/rbthntr64s-243-ak-build-27125/

FOR OUT 200 YARDS + THERE IS ALSO THE 6.5 GRENDAL AND THE 6.8 SPC LIKLEY A LITTLE SAFER AND EASIER TO DO. FOR A FIRTSTBUILD i WOULD RECOMEND YOU STICK WITH A BASIC 7.62 X 39 BUILD TO GET SOME SKILLS. A AFTER MARKET BARREL AND SOME ACCURACY INHANCEMENTS WILL LET YOU SHOOT GOOD OUT TO 200 YARDS. THEROUND IS VERY EFECTIFE TO AROUND 150. iVE KILLED DEER AT 225 YARDS HOWEVER BUT YOUR RUNNING OUT OF STEAM. READ EVERY POST HERE IN THE CALIBUR CONVERSION SECTION THERE IS GOOD STUFF HERE. THE AK PLATFORM CAN BE ACCURATE BUT IT TAKES LOTS OF WORK. MY VARMIT 223 BUILD IS SUB 1/2" MOA
 
#3 ·
WITH THE PRICE OF KITS A SAIGA 308 IS LIKELY EASIER AND THE SAME PRICE PLUS IT HAS THREE LUG BOLT. IT WILL TAKE SOME WORK TO MAKE THESE/ANY AK TYPE REALLY ACCURATE AS WELL.
Completely agree. My .308 conversion was fun, but was a bunch of work to get it to the point where it is equivalent to the Saiga .308. I would use a Saiga .308 for "big caliber" conversions... saves you a bunch of time and frustration!!!

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/AKM/AK_308/scoperail/000_0226.JPG

THE AK PLATFORM CAN BE ACCURATE BUT IT TAKES LOTS OF WORK. MY VARMIT 223 BUILD IS SUB 1/2" MOA
Same with my Saiga .223 build. A very nice rifle!
 
#4 ·
What Pookie Said!

Howdy,

I've done a couple of larger caliber AK knock-offs, and then tried out the Saiga with the Wood Stock. The Saiga is just perfect. If you really want to get a great and reliable rifle, I would start there.:smoke:
 
#6 ·
yes, but what fun is that
muttman
HMM WELL YOU BUY THAT SAGIA 308 FOR $600 GO OUT AND SHOOT IT AND FIND OUT A OLD REMINGTON AUTO WILL OUT SHOOT IT. THEN GET OUT THE CHECK BOOK AND BUY A 350 DOLLAR BARREL HEAVY BLANK IN 6.5 MM THEN YOU ORDER AN CUSTOM 150 DOLLAR REAMER TO MAKE IT A 260 REMINTON OR WHAT EVER NEW 6.5MM IS THE HOT TICKET. MAYBE A 6.5-284!! NOW YOU S!@T CAN ALL THE OLD FURNITURE, GAS BLOCKS,. FLOAT THE BARREL, MAKE UP A SCOPE MOUNT THAT ACTUALLY DONT FLEX WITH THE RECIVER. THROW A FEW MORE HUNDRED DOLLARS AT IT. TOP IT OFF WITH A $1500 SCOPE. RE WORK THE TRIGGER UNTIL ITS JUST RIGHT THEN YOU WILL HAVE A TRUE 1000 METER RIFLE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT SHOOT WITH THE AR 10 BOYS. WE HAVING FUN YET. SHOULDNT RUN NO MORE THAN $3000 BUT DAMM IT WOULD BE FUN TO DO SUCH A BUILD :)

THE PRICE OF KITS HAS REALLY KILLED IT FOR ME. I CAN NOW GET A PRETTY GOOD DOWN PAYMENT ON A AR 10 HUNTER OR BROWNING BAR DEER RIFLE.

NOT TRYING TO DISCURAGE ANYONE FROM BUILDING BUT WHEN YOU GET $500-$1000 + INTO A CUSTOM BUILD THAT YOU CANT REALLY SELL WITH OUT WORRING ABOUT LIABILTY ISSUES AND ALL THAT IT MAKES ME STOP AND THINK LATELY. MY FIST ak COST ME $65 DOLLARS TO BUILD WITH OUT OPTICS (PISTOL) NOW GUYS ARE PAYING THAT FOR A REAR TRUNION FOR FIXED YUGO. I GOT OFF ON MAKING A $100 GUN OUT SHOOT A $1000 GUN. NOW IT MAKING A $500-700 WITH TONS OF LABOR GUN OUT SHOOT A $1000 GUN DONT FEEL AS GOOD. IF IT WERENT FOR THE CALIBUR CONVERSIONS AND MAKING SOMETHING NO ONE ELSE HAS, I WOULD MOVE ON TO SOME THING ELSE. (CAN YOU GUYS TELL IM RUNNING OUT OF KITS ???) MAYBE A 50 BMG OR POSSABLY A 338 LUPA. HELL EVEN A PROPERLY FUNCTIONING 17 HMR AUTO WOULD BE FUN.
 
#7 ·
I knew someone here had to have the answers!!

Hey Guys thanks for the info. I know that doing the conversion kit for an AK will take time, patience and of course money. Well time and patience I have, and money well that is why I have a job. Any ways, I just want to be able to say, like most of you have I'm sure " Check this out, this is my baby and I built it all by my self". That's all I want. I appreciate all the comments and info that you have all posted. Like I said before my first build is a AMD 65 and have a friend that can help me, but can sure use more tips. Right now I'm working on bending my flat using the poor mans jig that GRASSHOPER was so gracious to show everyone how to build.

Thanks
 
#8 ·
Like biggun said, the price of kits makes buying a Saiga *VERY* tempting!

Otherwise, I do like the fact I started with mostly a box of take-off parts from my other builds, stuff from a "G" build, and "lookie what I have" ;)
 
#9 ·
Otherwise, I do like the fact I started with mostly a box of take-off parts from my other builds, stuff from a "G" build, and "lookie what I have"
YOU BET I COULD HAVE SIMPLY BOUGHT A AR 15 VRMIT RIFLE AND BEEN DONE WITH IT. BUT BUILDING ONE THAT SHOOTS AS WELL OR BETTER FROM A BUNCH OF MISC PARTS AND THEN HIT STUF AT 600 YARDS WITH YOUR FRIENDS IS PRICELESS. i REALLY GET A KICK WHEN SOME GUY DISSMISES ANY AK AS INACCURATE THEN PULL MY MORFIDITE FRANKEN BUILD OUT AND OUT SHOOT THERE FANCY BOLT ACTION OR IGH $$$ AR. I LITTERALY HAD A GUY WITH A 223 HEAVY VARMIT REMINGTON PACK IT UP AT THE RANGE. HE WAS BLAMING HIS AMMO ECT. HE LET ME SHOOT A GROUP WITH HIS STUFF i PUT UP A 5/8" 100 YARD GROUP IN A SLIGHT WIND AND SAID WELL NOTHING WRONG WITH THE AMMO. HE WAS EMBARESSED 3 DAYS LATER HIS BUDDY TRACKED ME DOWN AND WANTED THE DETAILS OF MY GUN. NOW THE GUY IS TELLING HOW ACCURATE THEM DAMM AKS ARE. THE FEELING OF ACOMPLISHMENT IS A HUGE FACTOR.

BY THE WAY THAT AMD 65 WITH A GOOD TRIGGER, SCOPE, AND ESPECIALY AMMO/HANDLOADS SHOULD BE A VERY GOOD SHOOTER. ONE OF MINE IS MY MOST ACCURATE FACTORY BARREL 7.62X39 AROUND 1" GROUPS AT 100 ARE THE NORM. I FIND THIS STILL SUPRISING EVERY TIME I SHOOT IT. HELL ITS ONLY GOT A 12.5" BARREL AND A MILITARY CHAMBER BUT THEY CAN BE ACCURATE.
 
#11 ·
I just looked at the 308 Valmet bolt and the bolt lugs are both longer, front to back, and wrap farther around the bolt similar to the PSL bolt. The 308 Yugo bolt doesn't look much bigger in the bolt lugs but the bolt face is extended forward to help feed the longer cartridge. The 8x57mm M76 bolt may have slightly longer bolt lugs but not by much. They may be similar to the PSL bolt though. I haven't compared them side by side. I don't remember exactly how the 308 Galil bolt looks. It is a bit different but I think thr bolt length is slightly different. Remember that the Russian did try a two lug bolt similar to the AK74 bolt in the 308 Saiga and the two lug bolt design FAILED CIP proof testing. That is why the 308 Saiga uses three bolt lugs. I bought a long barrel 308 Saiga as I didn't like the weird taper under the front sight base on the short barrel model. I removed the barrel. Stripped the barrel blocks and turned the barrel down to AK74 diameters and length, except under the handguards I left it thick. It's light weight and has a bit of recoil. I fitted the AK74 barrel blocks on it.
 
#12 ·
All I can say is keep reading all you can in this forum and others where there are experienced builders. That's what I have been and am continuing to do. I am like you and want to build some larger caliber AKs (including a 9.3x64 build) as well as get some accurized builds in there like 1biggun's .223.

Keep up the good work guys!!!
 
#13 ·
big gun,
my point of "fun" was most of the time one can get a gun, but making it yours is the fun part for me and yes a saiga are cheep to start with for a biy gun (and a good thing now) and now a fact of US law. but by starting out with a box of parts and not a gun that is convertd over and ending up with a working gun that out shoots the ready maid is just better. and what I like to do when I get the "me" time. there are still biy guns out there to be made but the cheep is no longer a part of the fun. muttman
 
#14 ·
Yea sorry about the negitivity was having a bad day and money issues are taking the fun out of my life lately. most of us here build for the FUN as do I.

the 308 is IMOA right at the edge of sane and should be loaded below maximum. I intend to build a few more but I will be hand loading at around 52,000 PSI MAX!! the recent facts of how military ammo is actually the same as commercial is proof that even though I thought I new everything on the pressures nato ammo was at I was wrong. There are loads that will perform very well and still be safe. I still like the idea of rebating the rim to fit a standard .445" bolt face is a good one as it will prevent some one like my son some day when im gone from trying to shoot Hornady light magnum loads in dads custom AK. yea its more work but it is not hard if you make up a jig for the lathe or drill press. I dont plan on sooting 1000,s of rounds I wnat to hunt with this.

I would love to have the soft ware to predict what velocitys various loads will shoot at with a given chamber pressure. I want to know what a 260 reminton will do at 52,000 PSI????
 
#15 ·
1biggun, your awesome post has made me even more determined to go through with this build. See that's what I'm talking about. What about the guy that you ran off the range, have you seen him again? Has he asked about your ak. By the way what type of ak was it?
thanks. I see the guy around he, a pretty good guy. He give me crap still about my ASSULT WEAPON but he is pretty humble about mentiong accuracy. as he knows I will shoot.. His buddy is considering building one but $$$$ is an issue and the AR,s are likely just as cheap these days with no work.

My varmit build is your basic Rommy,Bulgy,Savage variant with a couple minor tweaks LOL.

heres 20 shots at 200 yards at two targets shot at moderate pace while adjusting the scope. the circled ones are a touching first 5 round fired before adjusting the scope to center the hits. had all been fired ito one target with no adyustment I think a quarter may have coverd them all. a couple were slightly off center due to my fault. These guns can be made to shoot this is the best I have done


Here is a 5 shot 100 yard group that measures .497" the first 4 shots were. .407 and the first three were
.197 the first two were one hole. the ammo was 50 grain Nosler balstic tips with h322 powder a basic varmit load. I cant do this every time but it can be done.
 
#16 ·
Thats a pretty nice gruping 1biggun. I can't tell from the pic, but is that a 50mm scope? Also, would you know if for my AMD build, can I put a stationary sinthetic of wood stock instead of the folding one with the rear trunion that came with it? If not, which is most likely any idea of where I can get one.
 
#19 ·
Thats a pretty nice gruping 1biggun. I can't tell from the pic, but is that a 50mm scope? Also, would you know if for my AMD build, can I put a stationary sinthetic of wood stock instead of the folding one with the rear trunion that came with it? If not, which is most likely any idea of where I can get one.
if you want a fixed stock on a amd 65 it would be best to get a Rommy rear trunion and use a rommy/fixed stock reciver. every vender out there has a stock for sale of some sort. If you want wood you can likely find a rommy stock for under $20.

The scope is a BSA platnum 6x24x44 not a 50mm. A 50 mm lense would be nice but then the scope would have to sit even higher and its almost to high now. I shoot praire dogs with it so 90% of my shooting is done in good light so a 50MM is not a nesacity. I would how ever like a lot better quality scope this one works for $70 but it aint great.
 
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