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Thread: 300 SAVAGE LOOKS GOOD

  1. #11
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    wow I didnt relize that the 300 savage had been used in so many differant civilian versions.
    Using a stamped receiver with a front trunnion the G3 magazine is too wide and wouldn't leave any material in the trunnion, or not enough even thinning the magazine. The FAL magazine also seems wide and it doesn't seem a good choice for a rotating bolt. The M-14 magazine seems the best fit so far.

    HMMM. there have been guys who have used g2 mags in a 308 ak conversions it requres a thining of the trunion and the mag also but they will fit and there is some pretty thin metal. the one I know of is a screw build as there is no room for a rivet, things were very thin but a $2 each I may give it a try even if I have to really mod the mag. the mag does not suport the round at all in that area and you could likley remove the enitre top front area back to the center of the follower stop with a grinder in about 3 minutes.

    I have also seen fn/fal mags used. what is the reasoning for the fn/fal mag not working ? you mentioned rotating bolt being a factor. I see that the mag it not cut away/ droped down in the front. so getting it high enough in the trunion would be difficult.

    I havent got a m 14 mag to play with. my 308 conversion used a rare m77or 76 mag (cant rember it was a 308 mag however cost me like $40) but there way to pricy and hard to find to recomend.

    What I really like about the 300 savage again is the lowere SAMMI pressures. other wise a hand loaded reduced pressure 308 would be likely better/safer (and not saying it is unsafe to begin with) as the brass is way cheaper. my grandfather killed a lot of deer with a savage lever action in 300 savage. it seems to me that the new 6.5 Creedmore IMOA is very simular to a 6.5-300savage wild cat. the Creedmore is another round I am giving consideration to for a long range varmit build. they run at lower pressures as well.

    I have three spare yugo trunions (and looking for a few more) that are going to have differant barrel asemblies built up and then be swapped out on the same reciver. there is going to be a 243win light barrel coyote barrel. a 6.5mm either a 260 or a creedmore or some wild cat heavy barrel long range varmit build and another .308 dia round possably a 300 savage or more likley a 308 win on a lighter hunting weight barrel.

    the 444 may also get done initaly on this reciver although it is destine to be a hunting pistol round for my use. I have not rulled out a 22-250 or some other 22 calibure round like the 22 bench rest but the pressures will have to be kept down.

    the yugo trunions have extra meat making a screw build even more attractive not to mention one of the forward holes runs completly through the trunion so it wont even need to be threaded just cross bolted. im invisiong one big gun case holding a reciver and three or four barrel assemblies plus a pistol trunion and short barrel set as well. the reciver will be registerd and built as a pistol first.

    My ffl recived my recivers today. I am going to use a NDS-5 for this, my first 100% reciver. it will have to have the LH ejector rail removed as well as the cross member and mag well opend up but for $83 it will transferable and regiserd as a pistol plus no one has the bent blanks right now. I hate to cut up a perfetly good recive but I figure I am only loosing about $50 over if I made my own factring in the cost of the blank and the FFL fees ect. I am going to do a custom trigger guard and a have been looking at ways to save finger clearance. posably going to a AR stle mag release or some thing simular

    has any one ever seen the french MAS mags were the mag release is on the mag and locks into the hole on the side of the reciver? I was thinking that would save over a 1/4 inch by removing the mag latch from the trigger guard. I need to be able to wear gloves HMMM

    The 308 rim is slightly thicker than the 30-06 rim but not by much. The military wanted to strengthen it for auto weapons. IMI 308 cases have rims thicker than military specs for 7.62x51 and can cause problems with tight extractors but not often.
    interesting I defenatly want all my differant rounds to work with one bolt and extactor assembly. I will have to be sure to get my hands on some IMI brass before modifing the bolt and extractor to ensure that it will run on any case I choose to use in the .473 rim dia

  2. #12
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    The G3 magazine can be made to work. I had an M77 magazine but gave it to a friend. It's not much different from M-14 and Galil magazines. Spacing between the bolt and the magazine is an issue with the FAL magazine. More work than it's worth. I'd rather thin G3 magazines. The rim diameter is the same for 308, 300 Savage and 30-06. It's 308 that the rim is suppose be very slightly thicker. You can see this on the cartridge drawings and the military specs. Some companies don't make a difference and it's very small. I don't think rim thickness will be a factor but just something to note when fitting parts.

  3. #13
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Here are the rim thicknesses. Not much difference.

    308 - 0.050 in (1.3 mm)

    30-06 - 0.049 in (1.24 mm)

    This small difference is why 3 to 4 coils are trimmed from the Garand extractor spring when converting from 30-06 to 308. (these were the numbers I just found but I think I've run across them before and the difference was a bit more but not much)

  4. #14
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    The standard velocity for factory 150 grain 300 Savage is 2630 fps. I have published load data up to 2800 fps. That's not what we want. Look at Hodgdon's load data on their website. None of the max loads make 2700 fps, but they are close. A bit on the mild side but that's what we should want in a converted AK.

  5. #15
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Here is some interesting pressure data I found in my records. The data starts with a max 308 Winchester load in military cases and magnum primers. The powder charge is the same for all loads, only the other components are changed.

    Sierra 168 grain - 40.5 grains IMR-4895 - military case - magnum primer.

    52,200 CUP - 2626 fps

    Change to Hornady 168 grain

    51,200 CUP - 2624 fps (1,000 CUP - 2 fps)

    Change to standard force primer

    45,500 CUP - 2571 fps (6,700 CUP - 55 fps)

    Change to commercial case

    44,700 CUP - 2580 fps (7,500 - 46 fps)(less pressure higher velocity than primer change)

    Change primer and case (on paper only, added previous test results)

    38,000 CUP - 2525 fps (14,200 CUP - 101 fps)

    Change bullet, case and primer (on paper only, added previous test results)

    37,000 CUP - 2523 fps (15,200 CUP - 103 fps)

    This is a 37,000 CUP 308 Winchester load pushing a 168 grain bullet at 2523 fps. That still beats 7.62x39 by quite a bit.

    I figured about 1.5 grains of IMR-4895 makes a 100 fps difference in near max loads with a 168 grain bullet in 308 Winchester.

  6. #16
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I was looking at some of the 308 starting loads in my books and many of them if accurate would be way better than a 7.62x39 load at the same or in some cases lower chmber pressures. I like to have at least a 150 grain bullet in .30 a speeds under 2500fps for deer hunting.

    The standard velocity for factory 150 grain 300 Savage is 2630 fps. I have published load data up to 2800 fps. That's not what we want. Look at Hodgdon's load data on their website. None of the max loads make 2700 fps, but they are close. A bit on the mild side but that's what we should want in a converted AK.
    the max load for 300 savage in my Lyman book for a 150 grain bullet is compressed load of Varget 42 GR,s making 2741 fps at 44,300 CUP ( slightly above 7.62x39 SAMMI SPECS). this is not the highest pressure listed but is the fasted velocit and is predicted the most accurate. the rest of the loads are around 2650 FPS in max configuration.
    I figure a slightly reduced load of varget will still get me 2600 at around 40,000 CUP and should be a perfect round for the AK IMOA. I use Hoddgons powder a lot in my 223 and it has given me the best results. I have never been to shoot max loads from my lyman book in that gun due to pierced primers. you are correct the the hogdons puplished loads are more in line with real world use.

    I have starting loads for the 308 win that are under 36,000 CUP using IMR3031 moving a 150 GR bullet at 2500 FPS. this is still better than a 7.62x39 or a 30-30 by a around 200 fps and is way under the 7.62x39 chamber pressures. ( I am not factoring in bolt thrust due to the larger case DIA here so it will be closer to the original 7.62x39 spec at the bolt)

  7. #17
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Be careful comparing SAAMI pressures in the 300 Savage / 308 Win to 7.62x39 as the inside case diameter is greater and at the same chamber pressure would still increase the force against the bolt and trunnion. In the 7.62x39 AR15 the chamber pressure is lower but the 7.62x39 bolts break much more often than the 5.56 bolts.

  8. #18
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    I think starting loads of 308 would be plenty safe in most AK's. For the 300 Savage I'd still say with the milder loads. At least the max loads in 300 Savage should be lower pressure than 308 but some manuals really heat it up.

  9. #19
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Be careful comparing SAAMI pressures in the 300 Savage / 308 Win to 7.62x39 as the inside case diameter is greater and at the same chamber pressure would still increase the force against the bolt and trunnion. In the 7.62x39 AR15 the chamber pressure is lower but the 7.62x39 bolts break much more often than the 5.56 bolts.
    Yeap and like In said Im only comparing chamber pressures not bolt thrust. In sevearal of the other 308 conversion threads the math has been done to give comparable bolt thrust numbers for each round at a given chamber pressure.


    ( I am not factoring in bolt thrust due to the larger case DIA here so it will be closer to the original 7.62x39 spec at the bolt)
    If the AK had the same amount of bolts breakage a AR I wouldnt even dream of doing a conversion. whats interesting to me is the grendal and the 6.8 SPC bolth run some pretty high pressures well over what the 7.62x39 is loaded at and yet they get away building grendal upers that are running at 52,000 PSI (think that number is correct). this also tells me that the AK bolt is stronger than a AR bolt as a ak bolt failing is almost unheard of.

    This may all be a mute point because when I went to my FFL to register my NDS recivers for these builds he had a 22" 308 saiga on consignment for $349 I may have to sell a kit off to cover the purchase but it came home with me . I am looking at it and thinking it would be a much better gun in 6.5 creedmore or 260 remington and converted. this thing has the worst trigger I have ever seen and to be honest the whole gun screams cheap.

    Interesting story today I have my FFL call in the recivers they get delayed and I cant take them home untill they call back. 5 minutes later I decide to buy the sagia and he calls it in and it is approved!!!!!!!!! WTF this is our taxes at work. dont let me have the completly unshootable reciver but I walk out the door with a fully functional rifle 5 minutes later this is total BS. I drove an hour to get these now I will have to drive back when they decide to call back. The system is a joke. all info on both forms was identical.

  10. #20
    NoWorkCamp4Me railbuggy's Avatar
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    I was charged twice but never convicted of DV.I get delayed whenever I buy a Dealer gun.I would show them my CCW and say this is crazy.Im going to the Bill Goodman Show in Cincinnati tomorrow.More reloading stuff for me.
    SOON-We already lost the war. You are the resistance.

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