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Thread: 410 Saiga pressure issues?

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    Gunco Member jlwilliams's Avatar
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    Default 410 Saiga pressure issues?

    The 410 Saiga looks like a good place to start for a rimmed cartridge conversion, but I'm concerned about pressure. The 410 is such a low pressure cartridge that even the lower pressure pistol rounds like 45lc are WAY higher. If I were to build a 44mag or 357 mag, would it blow up in my face? Or, is the Saiga action just way stronger than the 410 needs to be?

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    the 410 Saiga has been used to do 444 Marlin conversions. so it will handel at least that. Tony at Tromix lead delevery systems did one he had some feed issues with it. I have a 410 slated for some type of conversion . there is a thred on the 444 marlin build here some were that I started

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    Gunco Member jlwilliams's Avatar
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    Excellent! I have a good suply of 44mag and 357 mag brass etc so I would go with one of those rounds. Way less pressure than the 444.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    YOU WONT WANT TO USE A 410 FOR THE 357 MAG THE RIM OF A 357 IS .435 (APROX) THIS IS ACTUALY SMALLER THAN THE 7.62X39 ROUND THAT IS .445. A STANDARD BOLT WOULD LIKELY WORK AS IS. IMOO YOU WOUKD BE BETTER OFF JUST DOING A
    9MM BUILD AS MAG ISSUES WOULD BE A LOT EASYIER TO ADRESS.

    THE 44 MAG WITH ITS .514 RIM IS MORE SUITED TO THE SAGIA 410 BOLT. 410 IS .527 BTW. IT IS A LITTLE BIG 4 A 44 MAG.

    PERSONALY I WOULD BUILD A 44 OR 45 AUTO MAG AS THE MAGS AND FEEDING WILL BE MUCH EASIER. IF YOU WANT A RIMED ROUND THEN GO WITH A 444 MARLIN THAT GIVES A SUBSTANCIAL INCREAS IN POWER AND THE BOLT FITS.. OR CHECK OUT THE 444??? WILD CAT THAT WERE WORKING ON HERE. I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE LOTS OF BRASS SO I CAN SEE WHY YOU WANT TO GO WITH A 357 OR 44 MAG. THE 357 ON A ROMY KIT WOULD BE THE CHEAPEST AND EASIEST. PERHAPS SOME DESERT EAGLE OR OTHER 357 AUTO LOADER MAG CAN BE USED. AGAIN i WOULD JUST GO WITH A 9MM AND LOAD EM HOT +P TO GET CLOSER TO THE 357 MAG IF YOU NEED TO.

    WHAT WOULD THE GUN BE USED FOR?????

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    Gunco Member jlwilliams's Avatar
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    The gun would be used as a suppressor platform (I have both a 45 and a 9mm can, both full auto rated so the larger case capacity shouldn't be a problem) and I like to tinker with guns. I do have a parts kit and receiver (mag well not yet cut) that I am leaning toward building up in 9mm. The idea of building one up in the revolver cartridges just stemmed from the fact that the 410 is rimmed, so I want to think it through.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Yeah I was going to agree with 1biggun that the rim size is probably too small, so you'll have to either use a different platform, OR get a new bolt face machined. I'd go with the latter.

    I agree that the platform may be on the light side, I don't know how Tromix calculated it will hold up to that cartridge. I don't know much about THAT cartridge so perhaps it produces a light enough chamber pressure that the .410 locking lugs on the trunion can handle it? No idea as I simply haven't looked.

    Rimmed cartridges are NOT an issue for the action. Look at the 7.62x54R and you'll see that the breech is surfaced to accept the larger extractor for the rimmed design, and that it extends farther out to the top of the rim to ensure no blowouts. Simply requires more facing operations on the lathe. You could therefore consider a .44 Mag/.357 Mag design with no issues other than ensurinng chamber pressure isn't exceeded.

    Again, feeding a rimmed design is a bugger. Rimmed cartridges don't lend themselves to double-stacking without an oddly-stacked design, which is why you see the Russian magazines with so little capacity (that and the fact that Russian x54R rifles are mostly "DMR" designs which don't require hi-cap mags). The .410 is single-stack for a reason - it is easier to feed a single stack without worrying about the double-stack misfeeds.

    You'll most likely have to design a mag from scratch for these calibers.

    I'm working on a 45-70 and I think - THINK - I have a double-stack idea that will work, however my spot welder's on the fritz and I need to actually make some time to sit down and work on it further. The state gun range is closing down for the summer in a few weeks (don't get me started!!! ) and I'll have to sweet-talk my buddy to go to his range as a guest to test fire it. So it will probably be next Fall before I get that fully running. My point is that I've spent a bit of time looking at double-stack, straight-walled feed issues. You can look at a Desert Eagle magazine design to see how their double-stack kind of makes the cartridges stack and feed reliably.
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    Gunco Member Bullpup's Avatar
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    if you want a .357, but you also want smooth feeding in a semiauto action and the ablility to stack these in a magazine, the possibility of hicap mags, consider 9x23 WIN.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    the 9x23 or even the 9mm Largo loaded hot would work and came to mind and the 9x23 would give ypu the powere you need. the 444 marlin runs realitvly mild pressures mid 40's if i reacll correctly. the trunion on a 410 is almost identical to a 7.62x39 and he bolt logs are about the same size. weater there temperd the same and made from the same steel is anybodys guess. Tony did fire his gun quite a bit as I recall and it held up. he didnt sell them due to the stock mag not working correctly for the 444 marlin.

    there was a guy on the AK forums that built a beautiful 500 S&W that required a threaded barrel however. there is a thread here on it.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    444 marlin is 42,000 PSI . BTW it can be loaded a hell of a lot hotter in a stronger gun like my H&R handi rifle, but it was designed for leveractions originaly

    Ramshot

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