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.50 Beowulf?

40K views 264 replies 22 participants last post by  TRX 
#1 ·
I'd been planning to do a .50 Beowulf AK with a bent receiver, but a milled Chinese receiver is now laying on my workbench. It's part of some kind of training/DEWATS rifle; the barrel is welded up, the top cover has a few short (and pretty!) TIG welds anchoring it to the receiver, and it's missing the bolt and carrier.

I'll need the following:

.50 barrel

7.62x39 bolt to match the Beowulf case head

bolt carrier and operating rod

.223 magazine (may require some "adjustment" according to the AR15 sites)

modified or full-custom RSB, gas block, and FSB - the .50 barrel would have to be thinned unworkably to match the OEM bits. Though machining them from scratch is okay, I might cheat, saw the rings off, and weld or silver solder them to appropriate-sized tubes

At the moment, the only real point of uncertainty is the barrel attachment - it appears to be threaded into the receiver. I know I saw a chart around somewhere that gave the thread specs, but darned if I can find it now...

Anyone see anything major I've overlooked? Other than the gas and sight blocks, it looks fairly easy.
 
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#57 ·
No need to get your panties in a wad. If the extra holes are a problem, the question becomes "how do I deal with them to the satisfaction of the ATF." Best case, I weld them up. Worst case, I have to saw the offending area out and weld new pieces in. There's a sticky on how to do that at the top of this page.

Though it has been some years since I've dealt with the local ATF office, they've been polite and helpful every time. I'll call tomorrow and set up an appointment with them to discuss the matter.

There's no need to depend on net.lore when the ATF office is only half an hour away.

I'll post updates as things develop.
 
#59 ·
No need to get your panties in a wad. If the extra holes are a problem, the question becomes "how do I deal with them to the satisfaction of the ATF." Best case, I weld them up.
Case in point, that was exactly, precisely what I was explaining is NOT KOSHER.

Sorry if you felt my PANTIES are in a WAD, but I was trying to explain this for your and others' benefit.

So I'm sorry to try to be helpful with a "be careful" message.




The ATF "declared" a batch of PSL receivers to be "contraband" because their 3rd hole was there, even though the factory welded them up!!!

This was perhaps about 2-3 years ago? It was a big stink on the forums as everyone was pissed their brand-new purchases were going to be returned, and some people went so far as to remove their fine wood stocks as they were worried they'd get some crappy stock in the trade. I remember there was a lot of bitching on the AKFORUM about it. I didn't really pay close attention to it as I didn't have one and really didn't care. (shrugs)


I do know that the factory-decommisssioned weapons (as seen on rusmilitary among other places) can NOT be imported into the USA because they don't meet the ATF's high standards. Believe me, I've even asked Oleg about cutting one up and sending only part of it to me, and he simply refuses :(

I have no idea how this applies to decommissioned receivers, so it will be interesting to see how they approach this.

Like I said I'm not trying to bust people's balls on it, but the ATF gets quirky when we have to wade through shit like this.

Good luck.
 
#62 ·
At one point the ATF said you could weld the barrel shut, weld the carrier and bolt shut and it would no longer be a machine gun. IIRC this was a method to DEWAT. (Deactivate War Trophies.) But there was attendant parperwork to keep with the weapon. (IIRC)


Anything with a third hole in an AK w/o paperwork the atf has said over and over is a machine gun. Weld them shut, its still a machine gun. use JB weld still a machine gun. The atf has stated once a machine gun always a machine gun. It sucks but they make the rules. If teh local agent says youre ok GET IT IN WRITING FROM THAT AGENT WITH ALL HIS INFO ON IT. Personally I'd torch cut that gun NOW and photograph it! Then reweld it.
 
#63 ·
Day 1:

Called the local ATF office in Little Rock. A nice young lady there said they didn't have anyone in the office who could help me, but she gave me the number of one of the regional Field Investigators, Mr. Lester Tigge.

I called him and described the rifle and what I wanted to do. He was also quite nice, but said my questions were outside his area of expertise, and referred me to the main ATF office,

I called the National Firearms Act Branch in Martinsburg, West Virginia, and spoke to another nice young lady who directed me to the voicemail of a "specialist" named John Roberts. I left a brief account in his mailbox along with my name and phone number. It's after 5 their time now, so I didn't get a callback today.

So far, about what I expected. Last time I dealt with the ATF they only had a few firearms experts and their time was booked weeks in advance.
 
#67 ·
not much info on the GB but he does go into what barrel threads he used. the sagia might not be a 23 mm however.
Hmm, interesting looking rifle. I haven't had time to think about furniture yet, but I have a fuzzy idea of something like a Valmet with an AMD-65 style lower handguard. In reality, I'll probably run out of money and wind up re-using the Chinese wood, which looks like it has been gnawed by badgers.
 
#66 ·
>I hear that some lettters take over a year to get answered.
> so basicaly you made four phone calls to the agencys who
> should be able to help you and your wating for a call back.

Yes. I'll give the guy a couple of days to get back to me; if the call gets lost in the shuffle, I'll try someone else. Given
the workload of the ATF firearms specialists (well, last time I dealt with one) he might be out of town for a while.

Dealing with any government pgency takes time, patience, the proper attitude, and an occasional prod to make sure things don't get stalled. Fortunately, I've done this sort of thing before.

> you already have the barrel coming you might as well plan
> on doing some thing with it even if you current situation ?
> dosent pan out. I think a virgine trunion with no pin hole
> taped out would be a good way to go or even a yugo
> trunon with the barrel pin hole there.

I have a Yugo flat on hand and a used Yugo trunnion on the way. Once I get a good look at everything I'll decide whether to ignore the barrel pin hole or plug it before tapping the trunnion.

> other trunions like the rommy have to much metal
> removed in the area were threads normaly woud go on a
> threaded trunion instead.

I looked at my Romanian trunnion for a long time, trying to figure out what all the bevel cuts were for. Originally I thought it was to lighten the part, but now I think they were intended to eliminate the thicker cross-sections to help keep the heat treat even.
 
#69 ·
there are lots of fore grip choices. getting that big barrel through them might be a issue however.
I've been looking at that. The stock foregrip bits lock into the rear sight block and the sliding metal retainer up front. Stock AK bits aren't going to work, and I'm not realy sure duplicating the bits upscaled for the larger barrel would be worthwhile.

The Valmet appears to use a completely different mounting arrangement. I looked at a couple of the manuals and posted some observations here: http://www.gunco.net/forums/f3/valmet-musings-48058/

Threading the barrel for a retainer nut would be possible, though there might be a better way... if I can think of one.
 
#70 ·
ARRRGH!!

I found a place that will cut me a proper chambering reamer for $150. Was double-checking my case dimensions while making the order sheet. And... found a reloading site (brleather.com) that has what is supposed to be an Alexander Arms drawing from 2001, showing a .004" larger base and .005" smaller mouth than the figures I get everywhere else.

There's a chance that drawing is for a prototype with more taper, but...

My die set is here, but Impact Guns backordered my brass. *#&^^! I'm not sure that measuring the sizing die will be worthwhile. Cartridge brass is springy, and the die size might be smaller than the resized case.

I think I'll mail the order in anyway, and tell them to hold until I get back to them with the verified dimensions. At least I'll be in the queue...
 
#72 ·
Crivvens! Beowulf brass is *gone*; the place that backordered me last week isn't even accepting backorders now. I ended up ordering a hundred cases directly from Alexander Arms. Suckers got me for $16 shipping, too.

They were also the only ones listing any loaded ammo. I guess the feeding frenzy hit the Beowulf guys as well.

A couple of places mentioned that the brass is actually made by Starline, but they don't list Beowulf on their web site.

When I started this project a couple of months ago Beowulf brass was plentiful, and cheaper than .45-70, most places.

If Beowulf vanishes entirely I can order some 11.2x72 Schuler brass from Midway; it's listed as "special order", but available. Ark. Urg. Ahem. [cough] $63.99+shipping for 20 cases. At least turning it into Beowulf brass would be easy enough.

Well, at least I have forty-odd pounds of lead, a brick of large rifle primers, and plenty of assorted powder on hand.
 
#73 ·
I called the ATF office in WV again yesterday and got through to Mr. Roberts. He said that a three-hole receiver would definitely fall under the "machine gun" regs. He didn't know about an acceptable semi-auto demill procedure, but he said if I would address a letter to him, he would hand-carry it to the guys who make those decisions. I'm finishing up the letter now.

The Tantal 5.45 magazine showed up. Nothing I can do with that until the brass gets here. The Green Mountain barrel showed up. I didn't quite realize how hefty a 1.1" straight barrel is. To heck with building an AK, all you need to do is creep within range and swing...

The money for the chambering reamer is burning a hole in my pocket, but I'm still waiting for the brass so I can double-check the dimensions. Argh!

I was looking at the reamer order again, and realized "12.7 Schuler short" is a wimp name. I'm wavering between ".500 Boomstick" and ".500 Cowbell."

"Boomstick" is self-explanatory even if you never saw "Evil Dead 3", but "needs more cowbell!" would get a lot of blank looks.
 
#74 ·
It looks like the neck/mouth is .525 and the base is .535. What was the dimensions for the reamer at these points? If you don't mind me asking.
 
#75 ·
Most places list .535/.525; the information looks like it was all block-copied from the same source. Then there's the Alexander Arms dimensioned drawing dated 2001, which I can't find the URL for at the moment, which had slightly different diameters, and various threads on Beowulf fora claiming there was an error in the information used to make the early RCBS dies. All of which has my reamer on hold until I the brass and die set come off back-order.

With my luck .535/.525 is correct, but at least I'll know for sure.
 
#77 ·
I have 100 cases back-ordered from Impact, and another 100 supposedly shipped from Alexander. Midway, Cheaperthandirt, and the rest of the Usual Suspects were SOL on Beowulf, though they all claimed to have it in stock back in March.
 
#79 ·
Starline doesn't list Beowulf on its web site. Apparently they only sell to Alexander Arms, who resells to the usual vendors.

The barrel is shiny-like-chrome on the inside. The outside is just rough-turned.
 
#81 ·
Biggun, do you have a live center?

if so LIGHTLY turn about 1.5" of the live center end.
Then flip it and turn the other end on the live center.

Repeat above if needed. You wont get to perfect center but its pretty darn close after 2 flips on a longer barrel.
 
#83 ·
If you have plenty then each successive pass gets you closer. be sure to alternate sides in the minimum stock removal to get a non interupted cut.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised how close it will be.

This 50 talk has made me want one to go withthe 45WM...
 
#84 ·
My tentative plan was to turn some half-inch aluminum rod (brass would probably be better, but I have aluminum on hand) to .497 or so, and center drill one of them. Drive them into the rifling a couple of inches, then center the plain one in the four-jaw and let the center-drilled one ride the live center. I'd have to use a drive dog, or tack-weld a tab to the drive end.
 
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