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.50 Beowulf?

40K views 264 replies 22 participants last post by  TRX 
#1 ·
I'd been planning to do a .50 Beowulf AK with a bent receiver, but a milled Chinese receiver is now laying on my workbench. It's part of some kind of training/DEWATS rifle; the barrel is welded up, the top cover has a few short (and pretty!) TIG welds anchoring it to the receiver, and it's missing the bolt and carrier.

I'll need the following:

.50 barrel

7.62x39 bolt to match the Beowulf case head

bolt carrier and operating rod

.223 magazine (may require some "adjustment" according to the AR15 sites)

modified or full-custom RSB, gas block, and FSB - the .50 barrel would have to be thinned unworkably to match the OEM bits. Though machining them from scratch is okay, I might cheat, saw the rings off, and weld or silver solder them to appropriate-sized tubes

At the moment, the only real point of uncertainty is the barrel attachment - it appears to be threaded into the receiver. I know I saw a chart around somewhere that gave the thread specs, but darned if I can find it now...

Anyone see anything major I've overlooked? Other than the gas and sight blocks, it looks fairly easy.
 
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#147 ·
Brad saved me $155.

The "internet information" for the Beowulf dimensions was 1.70 OAL, .525 mouth, .535 base.

The two cartridges Brad sent were 1.70 OAL, .525 mouth, .540 base.

There's some clearance between the cartridge and the chamber, but that .005" would likely have made things sticky.

One web site says SAAMI specs are .008" for standard commercial chambers, which seems like an awful lot for those that headspace on the case mouth. Another site says .003" is common for custom target guns. I chickened out and wrote what I intended to use the gun for on my reamer order, and told them to pick what seemed appropriate.
 
#148 ·
miscellaneous rambling

My wife found me staring at the pile of magazines and wanted to know what I was doing. I explained the various problems and combinations, and she decided I should just use the AR mags as vz58 suggested. I objected that I didn't like the way they looked, with their weird kinked shape. She said they were cheap and the cartridge was designed to feed through them.

Well, spousal buy-in is worth something on any project. Looks like it'll be AR mags.

I knew someone made AR mag adapters. The AR mag I have is slightly longer front-to-back than an AK mag, which made me wonder how in heck they managed to make an adapter. Some googling showed a bunch of Galil-to-AR adapters. Maybe that's it. Looks like the simplest thing would be to bend up an AR-style magwell and weld it to the bottom of the receiver.

If I do that, I can use a simple bent piece of sheet metal for the trigger guard and an AR-type latch on the magwell. I don't need dimples in the receiver, nor do the rails need to help stabilize the mag, since the AR mag would be held straight by the magwell, and it's way narrower than an AK mag, so none of those parts would touch anyway.
 
#149 ·
miscellaneous rambling 2

I had a "duh" moment a while ago. (most people have "aha!" moments, I have "duh" moments...)

I'll need a longer gas tube to get the no-RSB Valmet look that I want. I was figuring I'd have to carefully remove the front handguard retainer, then cut the back off and weld on a section of plain tube. I couldn't think of any way to DIY a fluted tube.

The flutes are there to stabilize the gas piston while providing plenty of clearance for unburned powder, dirt, etc.

I remembered one of the features of the Galil, and sometimes mentioned for some Valmets, was the use of "fingers" on the gas piston, which was supposed to enhance its ability to deal with crud. I'd seen some pictures of those and wondered exactly WTF was going on, since the pictures didn't make much sense.

In a spurt of inspiration, I found some Valmet and Galil pictures. They use smooth gas tubes. The "fingers" on the gas piston perform the same function as the flutes.

Well, duh. You guys probably knew that all along...

This means I can use a piece of thinwall tubing between the gas block and the top block. I'm planning to dovetail the Yugo trunnion ears and make a "top block" to slide in, which will have the gas tube permanently attached like a Valmet. The top cover will slot into that, just like the RSB, and the spring retainer at the back will keep it all together.

The plan is also to put the rear sight at the back of the top cover. This means that during recoil, the back of the top cover is taking the load from the gas tube, top block, and rear sight. I've peered at a lot of pictures of Valmets and R5s, and I'd noticed some of them have screws holding the top covers in place, extra reinforcements across the back edges of the covers, or both.

I think I'm going to try an ordinary top cover and see what happens before I worry about it. If the cover bends, I can fangle a way to lock the top block/gas tube to the trunnion or gas block.
 
#150 ·
My father in law has a 50 beowulf ar upper. When he got it he started using the correct mags but realized the USGI 30rnd mags worked just fine also. He tried some of the cheaper mags and the sides swelled up slightly and didn't work as well. For deer hunting I made him a few magizine blocks to limit the mag to 5 rounds for deer hunting.
 
#158 ·
The 5.45 magazine I have will only accept a Beowulf if you depress the follower and work the cartridge under the front edge of the feed lips. It really doesn't want to go in, and you have to help it come out by lifting the nose over the front of the mag.

Interestingly, the M-16 magazine I have accepts and feeds 5.45 ammunition flawlessly.
 
#152 ·
kVAR has bulgy mags in 223 reasonably priced or did the 10 rounders were under $10. , there are several kinds of steel 223 mags out there for the ak vaariants the chineese are narrower as I recall some were there is a thread i started on the the differances. all the 223 AK mags are priced at or below the AR mags designed for the beowulf. Not sure what you mean all the ones you found were to pricy??? a AR to AK addapter is really pricy hell the rounds them selves are really pricy. at what it costs to feed the thing mags even at $50 piece is the cheap part. there are also some US made mags however Id avoid the pro mags as they have plastic lips. For the 444????? project (I have the barrel in the lathe again) I found chineese steal mags pretty close. the beauty of the steal mags is you can bend and weld to the lips ect if nessacry.
 
#156 ·
all the 223 AK mags are priced at or below the AR mags designed for the beowulf. Not sure what you mean all the ones you found were to pricy???
Eh? Two months ago, only ones that weren't "out of stock" were in the $75 range, each, for steel magazines.

Considering I'd have to widen the feed lips for the 7.62 bolt, etc., I really don't want to mess around with plastic magazines. The 5.45 magazine I bought would require a bunch of tweaking to work.
 
#153 ·
Jo Co: WASR 10/SAR 3 in 7.62x39 holds 10RD

BTW the 223 ak mags I have have a slightly longer lenght this will allow for a longer AOL of a round I find that very important when reloading 223 ammo and it would possably be of benifit for the beowulf as well allowing possably differant bullet combos.

some were i have a source of al the differaant places that sold 223 mags. with the new political BS many are out currently. ill see wht I can dig up. I recall that there wasent to much differance between a 5.45 and 5.56 mag other than the follwer. perhaps others can comment on that.
 
#155 ·
there used to be a add in SGN that had em pretty cheap Not sure there there any more.

the addapter woud be nice the prices are rediculas. Im suprised that some chinesse company that makes all the cheap AK accesories hasent marketed a ceap version. UTG or one of the other ones. Ive wanted one to try in my varmit build with a drum mag to add weight to the gun and just make it so I dont have to get up and reload all the time.
 
#157 ·
Eh? Two months ago, only ones that weren't "out of stock" were in the $75 range, each, for steel magazines.
thats crazy. it was at a show several weeks ago and there were mags in the $25 range and that was show prices. they were the steel narrrow type like Im using on my 444???? conversion

Id perfer steel as well unless a 50 beowulf just happend to fit perfict. Id stick one in a Bulgy mag just to see how it fit. The Bulgy mags have steel lips embeded in the plastic BTW.


why dont you just narrow the carrier or use a AMD carrier??? the bolt will clear AK mags as is. I have narrowed several carriers on 223 conversions,
 
#159 ·
The order form, money order, and drawing for the chambering reamer is on the desk. It'll go off to Pacific tomorrow. I also ordered one of the 6x6x30 stainless park tanks turrican on falfiles sells for $120.

Heat treat furnace under construction. Heated cleaning tank under construction. RSB, GB, and FSB press tools under construction.

"Tools are good karma."

More small parts are in. Ka-chingg, ka-chingg...

Not moving fast, but steadily making progress...
 
#162 ·
Met up with mtdew this afternoon and snagged a Galil top cover from him. It's a smooth cover, noticeably thicker than a Romanian or Maadi cover, with the U-shaped reinforcement across the back edge. Ought to work nicely with the Galil gas tube that's coming. I'll worry about the dovetails in the trunnion later.
 
#163 ·
Galil gas tube and Yugo bolt showed up today. Amazingly, the width of the gas tube matches up nicely with the Yugo front trunnion; all I have to do is cut the notches for the retaining ears on the gas tube.

From squinting at Valmet pictures it looked like the ears were dovetails, but the Galil tube has little square ears. Which is much better - instead of setting up a cutter on the mill, I can cut the matching grooves in the trunnion with a hacksaw blade if I'm careful.

The Yugo bolt wasn't quite what I wanted. It still had a big lightening groove cut on one side, but I'm going to try drilling it for a sprung firing pin. Worst case, I have to buy another bolt body.
 
#164 ·
wa-HOO!

Got a message from Pacific Tool; my chambering reamer shipped last Friday!

Dave Kiff said it would take five or six weeks, but that's only about a week since they would have received my money order.


In other news, yesterday I found an interesting trick in Vickery's gunsmithing book. Basically, if you're working with a barrel blank and it won't go through the headstock for threading and chambering, just turn the OD down until it will, allowing for the profile you'll put on it later. I like that idea a *lot* better than dinking around with the steady rest.
 
#165 ·
In other news, yesterday I found an interesting trick in Vickery's gunsmithing book. Basically, if you're working with a barrel blank and it won't go through the headstock for threading and chambering, just turn the OD down until it will, allowing for the profile you'll put on it later. I like that idea a *lot* better than dinking around with the steady rest.
thats how I do a lot of mine. the trick is turn the blank so it barely fits through that way it wont want to flop around assuming the inside or the spindel runs true.
 
#167 ·
I bought some more metal to make another shoe for my bending tool. I need to machine it into shape, and make some spuds to turn the barrel between centers. All major parts and the chambering reamer are here, so the project is now officially waiting for round tuits. I'm a bit short of "project time" at the moment, but that should change soon...
 
#168 ·
If your barrel is long enough you some times can use a drill bit to hold the barrel as long as your cutting off the part that the bit is hitting. saves having to turn a mandrel to have run it on.

on the 444????? barrel I used a drill bit with a dog and a live center. to get it down to size.
 
#170 ·
actualy the dog set up worked very well as long as the lathe is long enough. It insures that the bore is concentric to the OD. simply just center the drill bit or stub made from brass or just turn one in the lathe and then leave it there then you know it is as true as your lathe. put the chamber end ( must be faced or cut true some how) and then profile your barrel. if the blank is long enough cut it off. you now have a bore as true to the OD as your lathe will cut. then you can chuck the barrel in and set it up with a dial indicator on the OD of the barrrel.

I have been turning most of my barrels on center. I am currently working on a 6.5mm profiled blank and the bore at the breach end was .006" out of center from the factory. had I just chucked it in and turned it off the OD it would have not been true.

On my South Bend I have a 3/4" spindel ID so that is as big of a OD I can chamber. I need to have a straight section fairly close to the stub but it can stick out a ways. also keep in mind if you go this route to do the crowning and muzzel threading the barrel will have to reach through the back side of the spindel far enough to stick through to be worked on. I can do a 16" barrel this way if it is taken down to 3/4 except the stub.

I still need a steady rest for heavy varmit barrels and longer barrels. if you have a smaller barrel then your spindel bore. make a sleave to work as a bushing to support the barrel in the spindel or it will want to wip around. the sleave dont have to be perfect as long as the stub is true when you chamber it.

If you have floating pilots for your reamer then you already have a part turned to fit your bore just make a rod the can accept pilots then you can do multipul bore sizes with out having to make a stub/rod to hold the barrel. in fact there is likely a drill bit size to hold pilots so you dont have to turn any thing.

also keep in mind that the barrel needs to go up against the chuck so be thrusted forward with the live center on the tail stock.
 
#171 ·
here is the set up I did for the 444??? barrel. this blank was a non turned blank and the bore was not only out of center by a mile it ran at a angle through the blank. the od of the stub was like 1 1/4 .

the muzzel end is on a drill bit shank and driven with a dog. the breach is on a live center. I was able to turn the OD true to the bore. It damm near shook the lathe apart the barrel was to ut of balance that I ended up hose clamping a lead wheel weight to it to help balance it out. I got it down to 3/4" except for the shank so I can now chuck it directly and put the barrel through the spindel and chamber it. the barrel is long enough that I can profile it and not hit the dog Ill just cut it to length last.
 

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#172 ·
12.7 Schuler Short reamer. If you don't run it into the barrel quite all the way, you can get proper chamber depth for a .50 Beowulf.

Lee .50 caliber Minie ball mould. That's .500 diameter like a .50 Beowulf or .50 S&W, not .512 like almost all other .50s. Hollow base, meplat nose, three grease grooves. The Beowulf isn't a high velocity cartridge, so I expect plain old lead should do just fine.

Factory Beowulf cartridge in an ex-USAF M-16 mag. There is apparently a fair amount of variation in the fronts of various mags; they're all just fine with pointy .223s, but the blunt Beowulf snags at the front. A quick kiss with the die grinder ought to take care of things. Also, the inside edges of the feed lips are fairly sharp, and put big scratches in the side of the cartridge. I'll have to zip a Cratex tip over them to knock the burrs off. Again, it probably didn't matter with a .223.

I haven't started on the magwell yet. I plan to just bend it around a steel mandrel, weld up the seam, and weld it to the bottom of the AK receiver. I haven't found any clear pictures of the AR mag release setup yet, though.
 

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#173 ·
The electrician came out to rewire the house today, so instead of working on the house, I got a little shop time. I spent most of it cleaning up and milling some cutterhead bits, but I did get time to drill all the holes in the Yugo shoe for my bending tool. I was looking at the Yugo flat and the AKM shoe, and it found I only have to chamfer the shoe back to the magwell dimples; the long chamfer back to the AKM axis pin dimples isn't needed since the thicker Yugo flat doesn't have any dimples.
 
#174 ·
Just a quick comparison, FYI:

.50 Beowulf, .45-70, and .30-06.

The Beowulf is the same length as a 7.62x39, and will feed in a stock-configuration AK receiver. The .30-06 requires moving the barrel forward and the center support back. I'm assuming Pookie is going to stretch his magwell to the rear since he's using a PSL bolt.
 

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#175 ·
I started this project knowing a lot less about AKs than I do now. I knew the Beowulf would feed through an AR mag, and that AR mag adapters existed to work in AKs. Well, Galils, anyway.

This morning I played with the AR magazine and my assembled Romanian rifle. The AR mag fits snugly into the Romy latch cutout. Same with the Yugo trunnion I have for the new rifle. The mag sits a lot lower than I like; the nose of the Beowulf sits a bit lower than the nose of an x39 in an AK mag.

The feed ramp will have to be fettled quite a bit to guide the flat-nosed Beowulf into the breech. Right now, the corner of the case catches on the sharp edge of the guide.

Then came the unpleasant surprise - the fat Beowulf won't actually fit between the lower locking lugs! I'd kindasorta assumed the magazine sat higher than it actually does.

The lug space is .477, the Beowulf is .535 around. That's .057; call it .060-.062 to get a little clearance.

The clearance will have to come off the lower left lug, which fortunately isn't used for anything with a two-lug bolt.

The other surprise was how little of the case head is engaged by the bolt when it's stripped off the magazine. Depending on the fit between the bolt and the top rail, it could be as little as .040". Fortunately the rim on the Beowulf only drops .005" or so as the nose angles up when the cartridge is stripped from the mag.

Blurry photos:
mag wedged up into Romy receiver
front of cartridge snagged on bullet guide
fat cartridge can't make it between lugs
 

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