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6.5x55

19K views 113 replies 17 participants last post by  1biggun 
#1 ·
My dad is a big fan of this caliber and already has several Mausers for it. And brass. :)

We are looking at an AK build in this caliber. According to the small amount of data I can find, the chamber pressure for the 6.5x55 is up to around 46,000 CUP/51,000 PSI. That is around the .308 pressures.

I'm thinking a quick and easy conversion will consist of:

- Saiga .308 conversion $600
- New barrel $250
- COmpliance parts $100?
- Magazine?

The magazine is the stickler on this. Since the cartridge is slightly longer than .308, I am not sure if the .308 magazine will work. I am looking at some different caliber surplus mags in case we need to do a complete magazine conversion. Any thoughts or shortcuts anyone can think of?
 
#2 ·
IMOO you would be better off doing a 260 Remington. the mag wont need to be modifed and the 260 at least according to my books will out perfom the x55. I plan on rebarreling my Saiga in 260 remington.

with that being said there is no real reason not to be able to do a 6.5x55. the mags are going to be the big issue as well as if the mag will fit in front of the hammer. the trigger guard to clearance will be even less as well. off the top of my head I would just lengthen out a fal or m14 mag .230 as that is the differance in loaded length in my books. then the mag will have to be made to fit a Sagia some how much like conversion mags. as you know the 308 Sagia has the feed ramp built into the mag. that 1/4 inch of length will surely complicate things as far as the bolt being long enough and possable interferance of the center support.

the only up side to dong this round over the 260Rem is you have some brass, im pretty sure that 260 can be formed from 308 brass (i could be wrong). the 6.5x55 is well regarded as a very accurate round and in loaded to 308 pressures would likely out perform or at least equal the 260. How much brass do you have??
 
#3 ·
the 303 british LOL 3.08 the x55 is 3.03 . the BREN is 303 british. i saw those mags cheap some were. also Turbo this did a 303 AK on the AK forums. I think he used a bren mag. this might be a mag worth considering. the 303 has a rim however so I dont know how the 6.5x55 will fit.
 
#6 ·
I was looking at the MG13 but it may have too long a curve to it. I will pick up a box of ammo tomorrow just to see if they will load into the MG13 mag that I have.

I was also looking at the French 7.5mm 24/29 LMG mags at IMA which are straight and may work better. Not sure yet.

I forgot I have an RPK kit that we may use as the donor for the build. He really *REALLY* likes the looks of my PSL, and wants to build it up looking like the PSL. We'll probably go with a 24" PAC-NOR barrel which is about $250. That will let us make it look REALLY close to the PSL. I don't know if PSL handguards are available anywhere?

I am leaning more toward just selling the RPK kit and putting it toward the Saiga 308 so we have that 3rd locking lug. That way he can load them up hotter if he prefers. :) The rims are really close to each other, so a bit of polishing on the 308 bolt face should be all it needs to fit the 6.5 rim.
 
#7 ·
I was also looking at the French 7.5mm 24/29 LMG mags at IMA


Hmm those mags may work and they have a neat latching system were the catch is on the mag. I was looking at the whole gun at a shop the other day. almost bought it but money is way to tight. i took a picture of the mag because the design might be usefull in a ak build and allow some room in the trigger guard are by getting rid of the original latch.
 

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#8 ·
I show a loaded length of the french 7.5x53.5 French MAS being 2.99 and the 6.5 swede being 3.03 that is only .031 longer it may very well fit.

as far as barrels there should be some 6.5 mausers or mannlicher or japanese Arisakas, 260 remington or even a 264 win mag take off barrel

this could be rechamberd possably made in belgum . priced right

Ruger M77 6.5 x 57 23 5/8" Sporter Barrel | e-GunParts.com
 
#11 ·
Hello hc,
You'll find that the French MAS 49 mags and the French LMG mags are much like the BAR and FAL mags ie very wide at the front and using two sets of feed small lips. I believe that your AK mag will require verticle clearance at the front for the rotating bolt lugs (unlike the BAR, FAL, MAS 49 types).

That front verticle clearance issue and narrow area breach seem to indicate either an M-14, a MG-13, or a Hakim (or Danish Ljungman) box.

VD
 
#12 ·
1biggun thanks for those barrel links - I never would have thought about Numrich! That's half what a PAC-NOR barrel runs, and I can obviously lathe it down to fit the profile! :)

Quick magazine update - we hand-cycled the longest factory loads we could find - 140 grain - which was 2.98" length. Below the max COL but still factory load. The MG13 magazine does *NOT* work for 6.5x55 in that it is too long by about 3/8" or so. That extra length is enough that when the rounds begin to ride forward in relation to the round below them, they tend to tip downward from the push of the bolt when the shoulder is pushed that far forward.

We ordered a pack of those IMA 7.5mm French mags for the French 1924/29 MG:

Modern Firearms - MAC M. 1924/29 light machine gun

According to my Hornady manual, that round measure just a little bit longer than the 6.5x55. I'm hoping that it will be close enough to keep the rounds from doing that slide-and-tip thing in the mag. So once they ship the mags I'll have more info.


Chamber pressures should be on the relatively low side of .308, as he doesn't load these incredibly hot. So I am inclined to say that the RPK parts will be adequate due to all the comparison of the Yugo .308 bolt vs. the 7.62x39 bolt (remember all that talk!?!?). Since this is relatively less pressure than the .308, I believe it should be fine. However I can't seem to find a readily available pressure table of the different loads that are available. He's running the 100 grain rounds - almost the smallest rounds for that cartridge.
 
#13 ·
iM SHOWING IN MY WINCHESTER BOOK 49.5 GRSINS OF 760 POWDER PUSHING A 100 GRAIN BULLET AT 3183 FPS AND MAKING 45,400 CUP.

THERE WERE SOME 6.5X55 CHAMBERD BARRELS IN THE $135 RANGE MADE BY ONE OF THE CHEAPER BARREL MANUFSCTURES.

I WAS THINKING OF MAS MAGS NOT SURE WHAT A LMG MAG IS LIKE. GETTING IT ALL IN FRONT OF A CENTER SUPPORT AND HAVING THE HAMMER HIT THE BOLT IS GOING TO BE THE ISSUE. IMOO
 
#15 ·
iM SHOWING IN MY WINCHESTER BOOK 49.5 GRSINS OF 760 POWDER PUSHING A 100 GRAIN BULLET AT 3183 FPS AND MAKING 45,400 CUP.
Data from the Hodgdon site indicates Hodgdon 4831 to max at 37500; IMR 4831 starts at that pressure. He doesn't max the loads and therefore we should be just above 7.62x39 pressures:


ACK well I can't seem to properly format the table data without a table, so here's just the data cut and pasted from the Hodgdon data page.


Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

100 GR. SIE HP  IMR  IMR 4064  .264"  2.850"  39.0  2894  41,000 CUP  42.7  3074  46,000 CUP 
100 GR. SIE HP  Hodgdon  H4831  .264"  2.850"  46.0  2552  27,800 CUP  51.0C  2883  37,500 CUP 
100 GR. SIE HP  IMR  IMR 4831  .264"  2.850"  46.5  2827  37,500 CUP  49.5C  3014  43,200 CUP 
100 GR. SIE HP  IMR  IMR 4895  .264"  2.850"  39.0  2847  40,800 CUP  42.5  3024  45,600 CUP 
 
#16 ·
THOSE PRESSURES ALL SEEM REASONABLE TO ME FOR A BUILD ON A YUGO TRUNION. WOULD BE LESS THAN A 308. ONE OF THOSE FRONT END ASSEMBLIES FROM CFS WOULD BE A GOOD START. IF YOU USE A SPORTING WEIGHT BARREL A L1A1 GAS BLOCK WOULD LIKELY BE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE RIGHT ID. OF COURSE IF YOU COULD FIND A SAIGA 308 THEN YOU COLD REALLY UP THE PRESSURES TO MATCH THE 260 REM PERFORMANCE. THIS WILL BE A GOOD LONG RANGRE SHOOTER IF LOADED WITH 142 GR HPBT BULLETS. BY LONG RANGE IM TALKING OVER 800 YARDS.
 
#18 ·
I hade a chance to buy the whole gun for $350 a while back and noticed how the mag attached and thought that it would be a neat way to hold a mag on a 308 conversion an not loose so much trigger guard space. as one could eleminate the whole latch and spring. I wish I had bought the gun it may still be there. it was mint.
 
#19 ·
There is the Swedish 6.5x55 BAR called the "Kg m/37". It's a BAR but the magazine is curved, not straight like other BAR magazines. The Swedish BAR magazine is normal 6.5x55 length at the bottom but get longer at the receiver so might not be a good choice.

24.1" barrel

velocity with m/94 cartridge 156 grain bullet = 2200 fps (2450 fps in long barrel m/96 Mauser)

velocity with m/41 cartridge 139 grain bullet = 2400 fps (2592 fps in long barrel m/96 Mauser)

The Swedish Kg m/39 is a 6.5x55 BRNO ZB26 (Czech Bren LMG)

The Kg m/39 uses a straight magazine.
 
#20 ·
Info on 6.5x55 headspace

1896 Swedish Mauser

It's accurate what it says about military headspace being longer than SAAMI headspace. I had a virgin m/38 Mauser barrel I fitted to an m/96 Mauser receiver. The headspace measured long without any reaming of the chamber. I turned the barrel shoulder back to tight SAAMI headspace. I think the factory chamber might have been perfect with military gauges even though the barrel had never been on a receiver before. The barrel didn't have any sights on it so I could turn it tight anywhere I wanted. The link also says there were at least two different military headspace standards.
 
#21 ·
You'll see the factory velocities are fairly low compared with Hodgdon load data. I bought some surplus ammo sold as "144 grain" and the bullets did measure 143 grains. The velocity measured from long barrel m/96 - 29.1 inch Mauser was 2576 fps. Other sources show a velocity of 2380 fps from the shorter barrel 23.6 inch m/38 Mauser.
 
#22 ·
from what Ive seen in a modern or mauser 98 action that the 6.5 x 55 can really be loaded up. in fact some of what im seeing it can meet or exceed the 260 remington if loaded up to higher pressures. .. it seems to have won a lot of compitions back in the day.
 
#23 ·
There aren't many 98 actions in 6.5x55 as most are 96's. The case won't quite handle as much pressure as the x57 Mauser cases as it's just not as strong. It does have more case capacity than 6.5x57 (a hunting cartridge) and this helps keep the velocity up to modern levels. So a 6.5x55 case is larger than a 7x57 necked down to 6.5 but it's not as strong.
 
#24 ·
So a 6.5x55 case is larger than a 7x57 necked down to 6.5 but it's not as strong.
interesting. some of my books show the 6.5x55 only 50-100 fps slower than the 260. I was refering to a 98 action rebarreld to 6.5x55 btw not a original gun. I know a guy who has a 6.5-3006 wild cat and he claims he he used to shoot out to 1000 yards with it. it on a really nice mauser action.

I have been eyeballing the 6.6-284 possably instaed of the 260 rem for conversion on my saiga 308. I really want a 1000 yard AK. and the 6.5 rounds seem to be the ticket for long long range varmit hunting. im not sure how the 6.5-284 cases will fit in a stock Saiga mag. sorry not trying to high jack this thread.
 
#25 ·
The 284 Winchester is very fat. It has a rebated standard rim but the diameter of the case is larger. That might be a problem feeding a Saiga. The 284 Winchester has nearly the case capacity of the 280 Remington. In 260 Remington the length is the same as 308 which might limit bullet weights to about 140 grains but that's not a bad thing. Heavier bullets might fit. The 7mm-08 (7x51 or 7x52) is close to the 7 mm "Liviano" (7x49) that had a 140 grain bullet at 2755 fps. 6.5 bullets do carry a long ways though. It would be interesting if you could get the 6.5-284 to work in the Saiga.
 
#27 ·
Well some good news finally. The Remington 140 grain rounds are slightly too long for a G3 .308 magazine. So when he got home and checked, Voila! ... the 110 grain rounds he loads fit *perfectly*

After looking at those MG links (THANKS for those BTW!!!!) I think the magazines to use will be either the Cetme magazines with their slight curve or the Saiga .308 mags.

I have some of thsoe 7.5mm mags on order as well. Doubt we'll use them but for $20 it is worth it just to have them to compare things. Since the 8mm mags are a bit too long, these 7.5 mags should be closer to the factory bullet sizes.

Looking more closely at the follower, I doubt we'll need to do any mods to the magazine.



Now he is positive he wants to build it up like a PSL. Parts count will be followed "just in case", but I figure with the receiver, barrel, floorplate, muzzle brake and piston it won't be hard to find 1 more part.

We are talking about making our own handguards because I can't find any PSL handguards anywhere! Does anyone have any idea where we can find PSL handguards? I was hoping that *maybe* someone with a synthetic stock may want to get rid of their wood handguards.
 
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