that is with a slug. this would use a regualr rifle bullet and be loaded hotter than a 41 or 44 magnum. it will be simular to a 444 marlin in power. the beautuy of a Saiga is it will handel a lot more pressure than a normal .410 shell. a 444 marlin will stop anything that walks in north america.The best penetration with slugs was only around 7 inches when 12.5 inches of penetration is recommended against two legged animals.