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Thread: scratch build 7.62x25 on ak reciver blow back

  1. #91
    Gunco Veteran muttman's Avatar
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    big gun,
    how did you get the 13/32" end mill? my supply house does not have nor will get one, I have found some on line or mcmastercarr but I need to spend so mutch to get it shipped or more $$ to ship. muttman

  2. #92
    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    I measured a suomi bolt and the reduced bolt face is .406", and like you said a pps-43 is .402" so you have some wiggle room to play with. I had thought about chucking the bolt up in the lathe and using a 3/8" end mill to make a plunge cut to about the finished depth. Then offset the tailstock until I have the bolt face opened up to .402"-.406". That way I could use a cheaper and easier to obtain 3/8" end mill I already have.

  3. #93
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    the end mill was at Enco the only place I looked. they had 10 mm also but was much more. its VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

    model # 320-1600 standard doudle end mill size: 13/32 length f cut: 1 Overall length: 4 1/8 number of flutes: 4 material: HSS $ 8.95

    cant bet that .

    I plan on centering my bolt/ carrier in the mill drilling a small ID hole for for the firing pin and to also be able to recenter on it if needed. change collets cut the bolt face. then keeping track and recording the amount travel for future builds drill possably a hole for a plunger ejector and a ejector hole if I decide to use a AK style ejector

  4. #94
    Gunco Veteran Viper Dude's Avatar
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    Guys,
    If your experimental 7.62x25mm bolt is a small thing like an AK bolt... use a lathe to machine the recessed face and fireing pin opening. A 3/8 inch or smaller end mill can be set up in the lathe tool holder like a boring bar. With a cutting edge (tip) horizontal (toward you) you can use it like a boring bar to open up the bolt face as needed.

    Off-setting the bolt in say a 4-jaw chuck (or production fixture) will allow drilling or plunge milling an ejector-plunger hole using your lathe and the above type tool holder.

    VD

  5. #95
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Im building from square stock or possably rectangular. there will not be on lathe work on it.

    how ever if I was doing a round bolt like a ak with a stem Id use differant meathods. for 8 bucks the end mill will still work in the lathe. if I only had a lathe the above meathod would work but to be honest Id likely just do it in a drill press for the ejector plunger hole. every thing Im proposing could be done in a drill press for that matter. a end mill in a press would easly cut the bolt face.

  6. #96
    Gunco Veteran Viper Dude's Avatar
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    Take care using an endmill cutter in a drill dress !!!! A custom reground spotface bit would be stable in a drill press as those have a center anchor drill bit.

    For bolt guide rail slots I would suggest using a slitting saw type mill cutter in an arbor in your vertical mill rather than a tiny endmill bit. That slitting saw will produce a nice smooth groove. These cutters resemble a small round saw blade. A small horizontal mill would be ideal to use for this process.

    VD

  7. #97
    Gunco Veteran muttman's Avatar
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    viper dude,
    you are getting way over on the checkbook, a slitting saw would be ideal but the cost for a 1-3 time thing would not work for me. the cheeper thing would be a woodruff key cutter for the size rail he ( biggun) is planning on. muttman

  8. #98
    Gunco Veteran Viper Dude's Avatar
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    Hello muttman.
    A woodruff key cutter can certainly cut the slots. They aren't cheap either. I have purchased used tooling at a place in Detroit called Kitts Surplus when living in Michigan. Nothing like it here in Arizona (no rust, no belt either ...). I recall paying about $1.oo each years ago for small surplus slitting saw cutters. Woodruff key cutters were a few times more.

    One other slotting process is to use a small diameter abrasive disc or stack of discs either on an arbor with a beefy drill press or in an angle grinder. The angle grinder will need a small guide fence (steel bar) clamped to the work to ensure a nice straight cut. The work is held in a vise of course.

    One other method to make smooth slots is with a horizontal metal shaper machine. Those use a cutter like a lathe bit ground to your needs. Small shaper machines are regaining popularity these days. There is a batch of N.I.B little Southbend bench top shapers (8) being auctioned by "Government Surplus" in Texas. The only bid I saw was for $150.oo for one. They are cute little machines.

    VD

  9. #99
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    For bolt guide rail slots I would suggest using a slitting saw type mill cutter in an arbor in your vertical mill rather than a tiny endmill bit. That slitting saw will produce a nice smooth groove. These cutters resemble a small round saw blade. A small horizontal mill would be ideal to use for this process.
    Yea I agree. the other issue with a end mill is the depth of cut is not deep enough so if you were trying cut say the ejector slot in a normal bolt for example the lug would get in the way of the the bigger part of end mill. my stuff showed up friday man enco shipped fast. slitting saws are not that pricy the arbors are not bad either. Ill be getting a slitting saw and arbor in the near future as it will work on tons of other stuff. the end mill will how ever get into tighter spots than a saw. that little end mill looks as fragile as hell. im going to need to gut slots in the front and rear trunion for the reciver to fit into. im going to need to gut slots for the carrier slide over the rails as well Ill be using it a lot. also with a slitting saw I can put the carrier/ bolt and the trunions in the mill vice sitting habove the jaws and cut both sides with out doing seperate set ups. just get my cutter at the right height cut one side move the table over with out changing any thing else and cut the other side. in fact the entire top and most of the sides could be gut in one set up.

    I have used a drill press before with a part firmly clamped into a a vice secured to the table. you can plunge down but not really good for side to side. you can also pre drill a 13/32 hole then use the mill to make the bottom flat and it wont want to walk.

    its occured to me that if a 7.62x39 bolt face were recut to 13/32 just a little deeper and the end of the bolt trimmed the same amount and the extractor modifed to fit the the deeper face and the firing pin shortend , that a bolt could be converted . the extractor could possable be welded up and recut or heated red and have the face hammerd/ squashed down and and possable pushed over enough to grap the new smaller round then recut and retempered. if that was done then the $25 7.62 bolts could be used or what comes in a amd kit. this would also work in a gas operated build then as well HMMMMMMM I may have to build a amd 65 gas opp x 25 yet. moving the bolt face back would alos help get the bullet closer to the barrel as the barrel wouls need to be moved back to compensate for the marterial removed the bulet guide wold need to be trimmed for the barrel as well. it seems that getting the mag closer to the barre is important on these for feeding.

    Im thinging of just welding AK style lugs to a PPS 41 mag and remove the original stuff on the mag. it would allow a stock trigger guard to work with the original mag release. the front of the mag coud hook into a reinforced reciver instead of the trunion. this would be the easiest shot of robbing the mag well out of my pps kit. I may change my mind a dozen times. I or some one needs to make cheap mag wells to fit these mags. I see the guy on the other site is making a addapter that just fits a standard AK mag well and that is a option as well.

  10. #100
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    looks like $30 would get you a arbor and at least on slotting saw blade the shallow cut blades run around $8 for the smaller sizes. I have seen a guy set one of these up in a lathe and then but his work on the tool post and do key ways. My grandfater did it all the time on Hydraulic pumps and motors he rebuilt.

    never hurts to have extra tooling. its half the battel in my world. that and no $$$$$

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