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Calico helical magazines and Bizon builds

9K views 46 replies 13 participants last post by  Viper Dude 
#1 ·
I searched through the Bizon threads and didn't find anyone who'd scored a real Russian magazine. However, Calico's web site now lists their 50-round helical 9mm magazine for $132 and the 100-round one for $157. From comments I found on some older threads on the web, this is about half the price they used to be.

Web searching returned lots of complaints about Calico's service and back order problems, but if they actually have the things in stock now... if someone is stalled on a Bizon build, it might be worth a call.

I realize the Calico mag doesn't look quite like the Bizon mag, nor will it fit a Bizon receiver, but some Bondo to smooth it out and some magwell fangle might make one a workable substitute until the real thing came along. Or if you just wanted to build a 9mm with a hairspray-can magazine, you might not care.

The Calico mag sits behind the breech and the Bizon sits ahead, so the cartridges are pointed in the opposite direction. From the exploded views, it doesn't look like it would make any difference in the Calico mag.
 
#36 ·
I'd read there were some patent disputes between Calico and the Russians. There might be some implementation details to squabble over, but it turns out that rifles with helical magazines were made over 130 years ago.

The Evans Repeating Rifle held 34 cartridges in the buttstock in a helical magazine, with a central rotor and guide strips. It's apparently fairly well known to the old-rifles and cowboy-action guys, but I just now learned of it.

Here's a picture of the Evans receiver/magazine unit:
 

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#37 ·
The whole patent thing is something I've read about and basically they designed the Bizon mag similar to the Calico, then when they went to patent it they found the Calico design was already patented, so they redesigned! So I've read...

That's an interesting way to make the guides... a long strip that is wound into one side. Would make things easier to build! That design looks like what Calico uses.

My idea is to use an auger-style rotor to move them with a follower that is hooked onto the auger, forcing it to move when the auger rotates. Sheet metal with an ABS plastic shell. Should work, just need to find a long weekend with nothing else to do but work on it... (yeah right)
 
#38 ·
Hmm, some new stuff from Wikipedia:

[edit]Feeding
One of the Bizon's more unusual features is the magazine, which is often confused for a grenade launcher.[2] The cylinder below the barrel is in fact a 64-round helical magazine, similar to the type used in the American Calico M960 submachine gun.[2] The magazine is made from a durable glass-reinforced polyamide and mounts under the handguard in line with the barrel. This layout makes the weapon more compact and concealable. All cartridges are aligned nose forward in the Bizon magazine and cannot be loaded incorrectly.[2][3] Early magazines were fabricated from aluminium tubing and had a capacity of 67 rounds.[2] The production magazine capacity of 64 was selected as 64 is a multiple of 16, and 9x18mm Makarov rounds are packaged in boxes of 16.[2] The magazine has hooks on top of the front end that engage a pair of pins under the front sight, and the rear end of the magazine interfaces with a Kalashnikov pattern spring-loaded paddle type magazine catch/release located in front of the trigger guard.[6] Some magazines were produced with indicator holes allowing the user to verify the amount of ammunition loaded; these are spaced at 4, 24, 44 and 64-round increments.[3]
 
#40 ·
If the Wikipedia article is correct and early Bizon magazines were made from aluminum tubing, they'd probably look more like the Evans - smooth on the inside, with a helical guide strip, as opposed to the Calico's molded-in guide strips.

I could see making an aluminum mag by cutting the tube in half and tack-welding in pieces of bent aluminum. The Evans' guide strip must have been cast, as far as I can see. You can't form a strip into a helix like that, as far as I know. It has to be either cast or machined from bar stock.

Moving on to the Calico, I was looking at the pictures Coils posted of the inside of his. I haven't had the cojones to take mine apart yet... anyway, the curved guides mean it's not a simple injection molded part. The guides would keep the part from being removed from the mold since they would wrap around their forming blocks. Looking at the shape, I would guess separate loose blocks assembled into the die, then removed after the part was molded.

That's from my position of ignorance, anyway. If anyone here has any die-making experience, I'd welcome their input.
 
#44 ·
You can't form a strip into a helix like that, as far as I know. It has to be either cast or machined from bar stock.
you can if you have a machine that can bend using rollers. they have pipe bending machines set up to do this. with the right rollers and angle you can take a piece of aluminum channel and turn it into a curly cue helix shape in short order.

not sure how it is done exactly but it is possible.
 
#41 ·
You could mold one with the right kind of molding compound. Take the mold material for my pistol grips (yes that is still an active project). Pour the goop around the part and you have a mold good for some time. It is pliable enough that it pulls free of the form and if you baby it you can avoid ripping it apart. A multi-part mold could be done, but you have to plan that better because you must have some sort of index point so you can rest the pieces the same way every time.

Problems I have encountered with molding are -

(a) the fact that bubbles will ruin your work. QA is the name of the game. Vacuum de-gassing chambers are spendy. Re-doing a mold is pricey and time consuming (takes about 1 day for the mold to set). I have several trash molds that are tweaked due to bubbles, etc. and that molding plastic is pricey. I have a shoebox full of "seconds" that honestly I don't want to give to anyone.

There is a newer kind of molding compound that apparently doesn't have the bubble problem, but I have yet to look into that. If it delivers as promised, it sounds like the best path.

(b) a template from which to mold. What do you do - build the prototype from wood or foam then mold it? You'll have to use bondo or some other filler to take care of all the voids so you don't get "extra" pieces on the final piece.

Give me one of those real Bizon mags from Rusmilitary that are demilled, and I can use bondo to build up the feed lips, and presto there's the template for the mold.

(c) the molding material. Most molding material is clear or white. To color it you must add a pigmentation of some sort. Then you don't get a true black, more like a dark dark grey. Honestly I think a fiberglass material might do better.

The black heat-resistant material I am currently using has a pot life of about 2 minutes TOTAL. After about 1 minute, it starts to set up like cold molasses, then that's it. Makes for some really interesting "poured from a cup" desk art when just doing pistol grips, but for a large part I don't see that working. What we need is a good plastic that doesn't require pigmentation AND has a longer pot life. 5 minutes would be better.

So is it doable, certainly. Just takes a lot of work, and the setup cost is pretty high.
 
#42 ·
I would be willing to chip in to help spread the cost of development out over several people. Just need someone that is willing to take on the commitment to do the work.
 
#46 ·
Dang TRX, you're gonna have to quit posting pics of killer stuff that we can't have!!!!! LOL.
 
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