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Thread: .30-'06 conversion notes

  1. #71
    Gunco Member tylergnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    The Valmet was available in .30-'06 with a standard-length receiver. So was the Saiga.

    The only detailed description I've encountered was of the Saiga, done by "BattleRifleG3" on forum.saiga-12.com, Feb 2007.

    Pictorial Writeup: Saiga-100 in 30-06 - forum.Saiga-12.com

    Basically:

    * the magazine well is moved back from the standard position
    * the center support is moved back
    * the hammer is notched to clear the relocated center support
    * the barrel is moved forward in the trunnion
    * the bolt face is moved forward in relation to the locking lugs
    * the .30-'06 bolt appears to be the same as the .308 Saiga bolt
    * the picture in his post is small, but the bolt appears to have the third lug like later .308s

    A Saiga magazine isn't much use in a standard AK. Valmet '06 magazines appear to go for $100-ish. One of the magazines below might be adapted, perhaps with a magwell extension attached to the bottom of the receiver:

    Johnson LMG 20 rd ($62 on GB)
    Browning BAR 20 rd ($40 on GB)
    FN-49 10 rd ($50 on GB)

    The snag is "first you get a .308 Saiga bolt". Since they're basically unobtainium, the simplest solution is to adapt a standard bolt. The main difference is the Saiga bolt is longer from the locking lugs to the bolt face. This could be easily handled by cutting off a spare bolt, turning it to spigot into the original bolt. Braze or silver solder as needed. By cutting an extra bolt you would avoid having to make all the cuts for the extractor. You'd need a longer firing pin; cut and weld, or perhaps a PSL pin.

    The ejector would have to be moved back. I've seen blank rails, or you could cut and weld a left rail to move the prong back.

    The bolt carrier travel is more than adequate to handle all this.

    The front of the trigger guard and the mag latch would need to be moved back, or just bend up a new one from scratch. The latch would depend on which magazine you picked, and whether you used a magwell extension.


    reference for pressures: (Wikipedia, in CUP)
    .308 Win 62,000
    7.62x51 60,200
    .30-06 58,700
    7.62x54R 57,000
    8mm Mauser 57,000

    The .30-'06 should be safe with a standard AK trunnion.
    I have at least 15 BAR Mags- they probably need to be refinished...

  2. #72
    TRX
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    Hmm, what would you want for one or two?

  3. #73
    TRX
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    I came across a slow motion video of an AK firing without the top cover. I'm assuming all the ammunition in the magazine was from the same box.

    The interesting thing was the difference in bolt carrier travel. Sometimes it stroked just far enough to pick up the next cartridge, a couple of times it looked like it hit the rear trunnion.

    It could have been an extreme example of bad ammo, but it was a dramatic example of why the AK has more bolt carrier travel than it needs to actually function. It gives "headroom" for variations in ammunition from lot to lot, country to country, subzero to desert temperatures. And temperature makes a *big* difference in pressure, according to several of the powder manufacturers.

    Izhmash built some civilian-market Saigas with standard-length receivers in 54R, but the military PSL had a lengthened receiver. I suspect this was to guarantee reliability under military conditions.

  4. #74
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Years ago I collected Valmets and I had a 30-06 Hunter. I never fired it. I only bought it for my collection and it had no import stamps that I could find on it. I seem to remember the receiver and bolt/bolt carrier being slightly longer than a 308 Hunter. maybe not but it seemed that way. Maybe it was just the longer magazine that made it look like that. I think the 308 Galil magazine is moved back slightly, unlike the 308 Valmet and 308 Yugo AK which I think have magazines in standard AK position. The difference in the 308 Galil is not much though. The 30-06 Saiga has the most mods.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
    Years ago I collected Valmets and I had a 30-06 Hunter. I never fired it. I only bought it for my collection and it had no import stamps that I could find on it.
    Didn't you mention that on valmet.org? If it wasn't you, then someone else got one like that too.

    After reading about the full-auto Norincos and three-hole Romanians that made it through, an unmarked Valmet or two isn't surprising.

  6. #76
    Gunco Regular allesennogwat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    Didn't you mention that on valmet.org? If it wasn't you, then someone else got one like that too.

    After reading about the full-auto Norincos and three-hole Romanians that made it through, an unmarked Valmet or two isn't surprising.
    It may have been me. I really don't remember. I don't think the 30-06 Hunters were imported through the standard Valmet importer who was for most of the time was Interarms. The story I got was some collector had them imported but without any import markings it's hard to check.

  7. #77
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    If I were going to do a 30-06 length round id move the FCG back some and move the barrel forward some in the trunion and then use a lengthend bolt or at least a 308 SAIGA
    bolt with the longer head.

    there is not really any cheap 30-06 ammo so its really not that practical of a build especialy with the 308 being so close in performance and generaly givving better accuracy.

    it would be real easy to just make a longer reciver and use a extended bolt as well.

  8. #78
    Gunco Veteran jreifsch80's Avatar
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    if a guy wanted to go the longer receiver route i have some usefull info.

    I was comparing an fn d 8mm bar mag to my m76 mags and they are almost the same length, the 8mm bar mag is litterally only about 1mm longer than my m76 mags. as far as it seems to me 8mm bar mags are the same dimensions as regular bar mags except they have the spacer plate riveted (or spot welded) in the back to make up for 8x57 being a little shorter than 30-06. with using bar mags even without moving the mag forward a guy could use an m76 length receiver bolt and carrier (psl is same length receiver bolt and carrier too just a longer gas piston than m76) so i think an 06 wouldn't be too hard also seeing that standard 06 loads are running pressures in the same range as standard 8x57 (not wimpy american factory loads) they i suppose they would have similar bolt thrust.

    i don't want to get into a discussion and debate on if the 2 lug bolt can really handle the bolt thrust. my philosophy is if the yugoslavians and the romanians trust it (m76, m77, m91 and psl) than i trust it (though i wouldn't use hot loads on my 76 that i would use in my mauser, just european factory loads and surplus) some ideas for you all

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