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Thread: .30-'06 conversion notes

  1. #1
    TRX
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    Default .30-'06 conversion notes

    The Valmet was available in .30-'06 with a standard-length receiver. So was the Saiga.

    The only detailed description I've encountered was of the Saiga, done by "BattleRifleG3" on forum.saiga-12.com, Feb 2007.

    Pictorial Writeup: Saiga-100 in 30-06 - forum.Saiga-12.com

    Basically:

    * the magazine well is moved back from the standard position
    * the center support is moved back
    * the hammer is notched to clear the relocated center support
    * the barrel is moved forward in the trunnion
    * the bolt face is moved forward in relation to the locking lugs
    * the .30-'06 bolt appears to be the same as the .308 Saiga bolt
    * the picture in his post is small, but the bolt appears to have the third lug like later .308s

    A Saiga magazine isn't much use in a standard AK. Valmet '06 magazines appear to go for $100-ish. One of the magazines below might be adapted, perhaps with a magwell extension attached to the bottom of the receiver:

    Johnson LMG 20 rd ($62 on GB)
    Browning BAR 20 rd ($40 on GB)
    FN-49 10 rd ($50 on GB)

    The snag is "first you get a .308 Saiga bolt". Since they're basically unobtainium, the simplest solution is to adapt a standard bolt. The main difference is the Saiga bolt is longer from the locking lugs to the bolt face. This could be easily handled by cutting off a spare bolt, turning it to spigot into the original bolt. Braze or silver solder as needed. By cutting an extra bolt you would avoid having to make all the cuts for the extractor. You'd need a longer firing pin; cut and weld, or perhaps a PSL pin.

    The ejector would have to be moved back. I've seen blank rails, or you could cut and weld a left rail to move the prong back.

    The bolt carrier travel is more than adequate to handle all this.

    The front of the trigger guard and the mag latch would need to be moved back, or just bend up a new one from scratch. The latch would depend on which magazine you picked, and whether you used a magwell extension.


    reference for pressures: (Wikipedia, in CUP)
    .308 Win 62,000
    7.62x51 60,200
    .30-06 58,700
    7.62x54R 57,000
    8mm Mauser 57,000

    The .30-'06 should be safe with a standard AK trunnion.

  2. #2
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    AHH I WOULD NOT TRUST WIKIPEDIA. SOME OF THOSE PRESSURES YOUR POSTING ARE NOT CUP PRESSURES THERE PSI! I WAS LOOKING AT SOME CARTRIDGE SPECS THE OTHER DAY AND THEY WERE COMPLETLY WRONG

    IF YOU HAD A .308 WIN MAKING 62,000 CUP AS STATED THAT WOULD BE AROUND 70,000 psi NOT GOOD. ROUNDS RATED IN CUP ARE ALMOST ALWAYS A LOWER NUMBER THAN WHEN RATED IN PSI.

    AS FAR A A 30-06 IN A AK iM NOT SURE ITS WORTH IT UNLESS YOU HAVE A TON OF AMMO FOR IT. THE 308 WILL DO ALMOST THE SAME AND A TON LESS WORK AND EXPENSE. DONT GET ME WRONG WHEN i HUNT WITH A BOLT GUN ITS A 06 MOST OF THE TIME. iF YOU WANT TO LENGTHEN A BOLT TAKE A 5.45 SMALL STEM BOLT AND ADD AA SLEAVE THAT IS LONGER AND MAKE IT A SPRINGLOADED PIN WHILE YOUR AT IT. I HAVENT DONE IT YET BUT THERE IS NO REASON IT WONT WORK.

    The snag is "first you get a .308 Saiga bolt". Since they're basically unobtainium, the simplest solution is to adapt a standard bolt. The main difference is the Saiga bolt is longer from the locking lugs to the bolt face. This could be easily handled by cutting off a spare bolt, turning it to spigot into the original bolt. Braze or silver solder as needed. By cutting an extra bolt you would avoid having to make all the cuts for the extractor. You'd need a longer firing pin; cut and weld, or perhaps a PSL pin.
    IM NOT SURE i FOLLOW YOU BUT IF YOUR SAYING ADDING A SECTION OF BOLT FACE TO ANOTHER BOLT THATS A BAD IDEA ESPECIALY IF YOU ARE GOING TO BRAZE IT OR ANY THING THATSS GOING TO AFFECT TEMPER NOT TO MENTION THAT BOLT TAKES A BEATING. NOTING LIKE BRASS OR SOLDER IS GOING TO WORK EVEN IF ITS UNDER COMPRESION.

    READ THE CHAMBER PRESSURE THREADS THERE ARE SAMMI SPECS IN THERE IN THE LINKS.

  3. #3
    TRX
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    > AS FAR A A 30-06 IN A AK iM NOT SURE ITS WORTH IT
    > UNLESS YOU HAVE A TON OF AMMO FOR IT. THE 308 WILL
    > DO ALMOST THE SAME AND A TON LESS WORK AND
    > EXPENSE.

    "Just because" isn't enough? <grin>

    The only additional work between the .30-06 and .308 would be the magazine and bolt, unless you found a Saiga bolt. Figuring you're starting from a flat, you just put the barrel and center support where you want.

    Bypassing the whole .30-06 vs. .308 debate, the '06 is 3.34 inches long. This means you could use any cartridge up to that length, like the .270 Winchester, .25-06, .35 Whelen, 6.5x55 Arisaka, 6.5x55 Mauser, 7x57 Mauser, 7x61 Sharpe & Hart, 7.65x53 Argentine, 9.3x62 Mauser, etc., assuming the pressures were acceptable.

    You could even take a .35 or .400 Whelen case, blow it out to .429 at the neck, and, oh, make a .44???? Long, with enough room to seat a long spitzer bullet, assuming you could find some suitable .429" bullets...
    Last edited by TRX; 12-26-2009 at 11:10 PM. Reason: typo daemons...

  4. #4
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    If you were seroius about a 06. I would buy a used 308 sagia and go from there. I bought mine for under $350 in a shop so there out there. $400 is pretty good when you figure what a kit a reciver and a unobtainable bolt cost or even using a 5.45 bolt that costs close to $60. yugo kits arent cheap and you would be smart to use a yugo bulged trunion IMOO. id be leary still of running full power loads in 30-06 on a two lug bolt.

    all those rounds above have simular shorter version including the 444 marlin in a big bore. look at the 358 WIN, 7mm08, 308, 243, 250 savage, 260 rem ect.

    BTW look at the leverlution ftx?? plastic tip bullets from hORNADY IN 265 AN 225 GRAIN THERE THE ANSWER TO A LONG 44. ALSO SEE MY RIMLESS 444 MARLIN POST ITS JUST A CUT 06 CASE RAN IN A 444 DIE.

    Im all for the build if you can find the bolt. I have been looking at WSM reduced loads and there are gains to be had at 50,000PSI pressures but the the larger head size means more bolt thrust. but even a 45,000 PSI there are gains over a 308 not sure if its worth the cost. a 6.5 284 would be cool as would a normal 280.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    I've looked at those notes a while back, I think I even saved those pics on my computer for future reference. They basically did everything I discovered the hard way for my .308 conversion! Wish I'd have read the thread before I did mine, would have made mine easier!


    They are basically doing the same thing and it may work as-is, not sure if hte longer bullet will fit the Saiga opening. If not then you need to move the center support back a little ways and weld up the holes. The big thing is going to be moving back everything starting at the back of the magazine well opening, the magazine latch (and holes), the center support, and then modifying the hammer to work with the center support's new location. In fact you may find you'll need to relocate the FCG holes back as well.

    I too would start with a .308 Saiga. If US_Dragunov's contact in the Izzy plant is correct, then the 3rd locking lug is an accuracy point and not a safety point. Either way, the Saiga .308 is already going to be able to push those higher pressures out of the box and that's the reason I'd select it. Welding up those holes will be no different than doing so on a Saiga conversion with the holes for that trigger ramp. You'll be able to resell that stripped .308 barrel with no problems at all.
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  6. #6
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    I stripped my Romy and poked around with an '06 cartridge. I don't think you'd have to move anything back, though you'd have to shorten or modify the trigger guard and/or mag latch.

    I'm a long way from getting around to my make-a-bolt project (a 4140 round bar leans against the lathe bench...), but turbothis over on theakforum has pictures of one he'd partially finished with. If he decides to sell them, he might be persuaded to make them in Saiga configuration, which would make a lot of things easier.

  7. #7
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    I found this at saiga20 -

    The caption is, "A comparison of the standard AK-47 bolt holding a cartridge, and the bolt of the Saiga 20 holding a shell."

    Is this a two-piece head on a small stem bolt, or is it a figment of the camera?
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    Cranky Curmudgeon zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    I haven't taken any measurements, but would it be worthwhile to look at a PSL as a starting point? It's already set up for the longer x54 round which is ballistically similar to the '06. It uses the bulged trunnion, and the barrel can be shortened without much fuss. Plus the recent prices have been pretty decent.

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    I found this at saiga20 -

    The caption is, "A comparison of the standard AK-47 bolt holding a cartridge, and the bolt of the Saiga 20 holding a shell."

    Is this a two-piece head on a small stem bolt, or is it a figment of the camera?
    Yes it is a 2-piece bolt. The "bolt face" is what holds the cartridge.
    Gunco Member #10

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    The "original" Boltcutter Rivet Squeezers:
    http://pookieweb.net/AK/rivet/boltcutters/boltcutter.htm


    Project Pink - the Pink and Blue AK-74:
    http://pookieweb.net/pink/pink.htm

  10. #10
    TRX
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    Any idea what holds the pieces together?

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