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.35 Remington

5K views 35 replies 11 participants last post by  1biggun 
#1 ·
Saiga made some rifles in .35 Remington, and there's a .pdf of a book from D&S from 2000 that describes building one from a flat, opening the bolt face to .460" and sectioning and widening a stock x39 magazine.

The .35 came out in 1906 and is a low-pressure cartridge at 33,500 CUP. It can push a 200 grain, .358" bullet out to around 2000 fps, which gives it quite a bit more punch than the 7.62x39 despite the lower pressure.

A 7.62x39 cartridge is about 2.2" long, the .35 is 2.53", and a .308 is 2.80". You could use a .308 mag with a spacer... or if you handload, Hornady makes some spitzer bullets that might make up most of the difference. The old P-17 Enfield had about the same amount of cartridge slop in the magzine (It was originally designed for the very long .280 Ross), though the idea of cartridges slamming back and forth with recoil makes me wince.

Reamerrentals.com has .35 Remington reamers for $26, with another $5 for the headspace gauge.

Inexpensive true .358" barrels seem to be out of stock everywhere at the moment. Googling around shows some Marlin 336s in .35 Remington were .359 or .360"

Numrich has .357 carbine barrels for $19.95, depending on how you feel about pushing a .358" bullet through a .357" barrel. Izhmash and Tula didn't worry much about that sort of thing...
 
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#3 ·
I was looking through some of my loading manuals last night, and some show the .35 as having a .357" barrel.

I have enough projects in the fire at the moment, so I'm just presenting the .35 information FYI.
 
#4 ·
I've been keeping an eye out on .35 Remington stuff. I recently found a picture of a Molot Vepr with ".35 Remington" engraved (apparently by the factory, along with the brand and model name) on the top cover.

My first reaction to the .35 was "WTF?" A nearly-extinct levergun cartridge, alive only because of the cowboy shooting fad, best as I can figure. Why dig something like that out of its grave?

As noted earlier, the .35 gives you some impressive ballistics from low pressure, like the .300 Savage. The .357" bullet is short and fat by rifle standards, but there's a large selection of longer and heavier bullets, mostly targeted to people shooting Contenders in .357.

The rimless, slightly bottlenecked .35 case was designed to be easily fed through leverguns. Apparently it feeds well through the Kalasnikov design too.

.357 Maximum:
48,000 CUP 200gr, 1675 f/s, 1246 ft/lb

.35 Remington:
33,500 CUP 200gr, 2084 f/s, 1929 ft/lb

7.62x39:
xxxxxxxxxx 123gr, 2300 f/s, 1480 ft/lb

.30-30:
xxxxxxxxxx 150gr, 2390 f/s, 1903 ft/lb

.45-70:
xxxxxxxxxx 405gr, 1384 f/s, 1748 ft/lb

The .35 packs more wallop than the x39. It's right up there with the .30-30, and substantially hotter than the .357 Maximum, which is usually considered sufficient for any North American game that weighs less than a Harley-Davidson Electra Glide.

Also note the .35 carries more energy downrange than the .45-70! Well, at least in its original military loading...
 
#11 ·
Also note the .35 carries more energy downrange than the .45-70! Well, at least in its original military loading...
Apples and oranges. The original black powder load is easily beaten but the high-performance loads with 350gr - 500gr bullets puts it up near the 458 Winchester Magnum (according to Hornady). ;)
 
#7 ·
HMMMMMM a 357 maximum with 15,000 CUP more pressure goes 409 fps slower with the same weight bullet????? is there any barrel length data for these specs?????
I didn't notice, but I'd assume 8-10" for the Max and 18-20" for the .35.

[looks at Wikipedia pages again]

14" for the Maximum, referencing Accurate Powder data
24" for the .35, same source

I guess I could have edited the above so it looked like I knew that all along...

Peak pressure usually occurs just after the bullet enters the rifling, from what I've read. I searched on ".357 Maximum rifle" but didn't find any length/velocity figures on the first couple of hits.

Since the Maximum was developed for 6" barrel revolvers, I'd expect it uses a fast-burning powder to build as much speed as it can before running out of barrel. The .35 was always a rifle cartridge. I'd say the main difference (in factory loading) is the powder burn rate.

It might be interesting to see what you could do, handloading Maximum for rifle-length barrels. A Maximum rim will fit an unmodified AK bolt, but you'd have to fab the magazine from scratch, or slice'n'dice a Desert Eagle or Coonan .357 magazine. The .35 will feed through a .308 AK magazine.
 
#8 ·
I've never heard of AK's factory chambered in .35 rem!>? not sure i even belive it without seeing it. You can feed a few rounds of .35 rem in an ak47 mag if you load to a shorter OAL or reload using short round or flat nose 9mm bullets (not spitzers). As well the case head of .35 rem is small enough to fit the 7.62x39mm bolt face.

It would make more sense to me to convert a Saiga .308 to .358 winchester, shooting bullets twice the weight of 7.62x39mm (125 gr) at the same velocities as 7.62x39mm (250 grn at 2200FPS). As stated above .358 win is made from .308 brass so the mags and bolts should interchange. Could make for a VERY potent subsonic platform too.
 
#9 ·
I've never heard of AK's factory chambered in .35 rem!>? not sure i even belive it without seeing it.
I've found several pictures, and there was mention of it on the Izshevsk web site. Apparently it's quite popular in the Russian and eastern European market.

Valmet built some rifles in .243 Win, Saiga did .270 Win, 9.3x53R, .35 Remington, .30-06, and in .410, 20ga, and 12ga. Molot also built .35 Remington guns.

Bear in mind these are all civilian market rifles, so they're building what they think the market will buy, instead of meeting government specifications.

You might boggle at a Kalashnikov in .35 Remington, but I *still* can't quite get my mind around the idea of a Kalashnikov in 12 gauge. There's something fundamentally wrong about the whole thing, sort of like the Leningrad Cowboys and the Red Army Choir performing Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" in concert...
 
#17 ·
I just cant let this one go:bangin:

after sone thought on this one a 35 rem would be better for me in the long run than a .45 bush/socom from the reloading, build side of it (reamer, mod's, etc)
1) boldt face to case fit. it fits, with out a spring gage cant tell the diff. in sliding one in (pic#1) x39 to 35 rem.
2) mag issues, will not work in a x39 mag but a .308 mag will/should work. if you look at the 35rem case mouth (pic #2 longer brass) just short of a .308 case. bonus time no 922 with 10rnd mag's :cool:. now the down side :mad:, the M14 mags that I have do not have a front lug nor a standard back lug but this can be worked out.
3) a .35 rem reamer can be rented (.45 bush/socom not so good) and there are barrels (blank and used) out there.
4) .35 rem brass is still out there or in a pinch .308 can be reformed to work (pic#3) more work but I have a frend that pops off a .35 rem with in a blue moon. he does not relode (cost to him) there could be a trade used brass for reloaded ones.
muttman

can poost photos wont uplode ? does not give a reason will try later.
 
#19 ·
I made a 90-mile trip yesterday to buy some .303 brass. I guess I should have called first... they were still cleaned out from last time I was there.

I thought of this thread while looking at .35 Remington brass. They had buckets of it, both new and once-fired.
 
#22 ·
I hate the fact that you need to go back and get my brass, lol. I need the W's (who, ware, etc) so I can start hording it.
Blue Star in Searcy, Arkansas:

Blue Star Cartridge & Brass

They do gun shows all over the south, so if there's one in your area soon, give 'em a call and make sure they bring some. They also ship via UPS.

After I posted the first message in this thread I've seen loaded .35 Remington all over the place - gun shows, sporting goods stores, even Wal-Mart. I would never have guessed it was so popular... and 9mm/.38, it's about a cheap to reload as you can get.
 
#25 ·
I have seen comments in several places besides here that .358 or .308 brass can be sized down to .35 Remington. I wonder if any of the folks who claim it can be done have actually tried it? I have, and it did not work. The walls sized down just fine, but it formed a belt at the base, that would not go in the .35 chamber. Sure, that belt could be turned off, but I would rather just chamber for .358 in the first place.
The .358, besides having more ready brass availability (in the form of .308), is a better cartridge because it has a longer neck. Also, the larger capacity allows it to be loaded to a similar power level at lower pressure, or more power at similar pressure.
There is a very good discussion on 24hour campfire about rechambering Marlin 336 lever actions in .35 Remington to .358, and then loading it to .356 specs (which is just a rimmed .358 with a max OAL of 2.55").
 
#27 ·
Good idea. Another option would be to set up a donation fund to build a .308 rifle, then set up a remote firing arrangement and fire 100 rounds of maximum but not proof level handloads, and check the headspace. If no change, try 10 rounds of proof-level loads and recheck headspace. Builder/tester gets to dispose of the rifle or remnants thereof, as he sees fit. Full report with photos, of course.
I would be willing to do it, if nobody else does. I have land that I could do something like that on.

ETA: I just re-read your post and saw that you did mention improvised testing. I'm willing to share the cost, or build the receiver and assemble it into a test rifle, and test it. I am curious to know what a standard Romy bolt/trunnion will handle.
 
#28 ·
There is nothing wrong with a wildcat cartridge. You can design a shortened 308 case with a .358 bullet that will fit in an AK mag. Or use the 35 Remington brass. You can have forming and reloading dies made. I once built up an M1 carbine in 357 Auto Mag. It went 2000 fps with a 158gr bullet. A longer version of that round would work.
The easiest way would be to rebore a 308 to 358 Winchester. The 358W is easy to make from 308 cases. Had a Winchester M88 in 358 years ago and it was a great cartridge. A rebored Saiga in 358W would make a great bear protection gun. Some were made in the M1A.
 
#29 ·
The question isn't "what's the most powerful .358 cartridge the Russians could have crammed into an AK", but "why did they choose the .35 Remington over all other competitors, including their own 9x39?"

My theory is it's because these civilian-market rifles were primarily intended to hunt meat for the pot. Why put up with more noise and recoil than you have to, and damage the meat more?

*Someone* thought there was a market for AKs in .35 Remington; both Izhmash and Molot made them for sale in the home market and Europe.

Molot doesn't exist any more, and Izhmash has dumped the .35 along with about half of the calibers they listed last year, during their recent American-style "product line adjustment" as they faced bankruptcy. Frankly, if I was an arms company facing extinction I'd list every cartridge that might conceivably bring some rubles in, even if I had to have old Piotr in the back room run a chambering reamer in with a tap wrench instead of making them on the regular line, but what do I know about business?
 
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