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Thread: muzzel loading AK ideas

  1. #1
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Default muzzel loading AK ideas

    I have been looking at some of the smokeless powder High pressure inline muzzel loaders being built on remington 700 and other actions and then staring at a 458 win mag barrel i bought for a pistol build that never took off and the light bulb came on.

    Im going to build a muzzel loader barrel for my switch barrel AK build. it should be really simple. add a threaded breach plug that will use small rifle primers in a cut down 223 case for priming andscrew that bad boy on.

    the barrel an plug will handel at least 55,000 Psi and on top of that there will be a bolt with lugs to reinfoce it if the plug were to fail.

    guys are getting serious perfomance by using normal smoke less rifle powder I was even considerin leaving most of the original 458 win mag chamber there and only seating the bullet to were the rifeling ends. I would expect near 458 win mag performace and certainaly beyond 45-70 levels. a 223 bolt would extract the made from 223 primer holders and I could likely use cut down x39 and even use a standard bolt. i was thinking of leaving the a mag there as a storage compartemnt for powder and bullets.

    Oh boy wait untill the DNR sees me walking into the woods with a AK 47 with mag hanging out during the muzzel loading season not to mention in the restricted Zone.

    there are guys shooting well under 1moa with the bolt action versions and doing it out to 500 yards. It will be the most powerfull ak that I can think of. At least for one shot at a time. it to funky cool to not build it. and it wont need a super long barrel like a black powder gun either likely a 18" will do.

    A bigger calibur would be super easy as muzzel loaders are not restricted to .50 like center fire. I need one of those 30mm vulcan barrels hell a 50BMG barrel and a lot of powder could really be interesting.

    I have no idea if a big chamber to hold powder that necks down to the bore is workable. seems all muzzel loaders are just a plug in the end of the baarrel and no chamber. I cant see why there would be any differance from a center fire if I used the existing chamber?????? I could actualy cut the neck of a brass round drill out the primer hole install it into a deeply cut chamber and then screw the breach plug in on top of it then use the case as a bullet stop and also it would eleminate erousion to the chamber as the powder would never hit the chamber.

    im just thinking out loud here but a 500 grain bullet doing around 2100 FPS is going to leave one hell of a mark on what ever it hits. there will definatly need to be some sort of muzzel brake on this thing as well.

    unfortunaly they dont allow optics with magnification. Hmm the rules dont say any thing about 10 power eye classes looking through a 1x scope however LOL

    even a black powder barrel that is cheap and using pyrodex or something simular running normal black powder pressures would be interesting. can you imagine the looks on guys faces when you pull out a 54 cal black powder AK with a folder and a 30 round mag/ storage box hanging off the bottom ??????

  2. #2
    TRX
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    Subtract the volume of the plug, add what you get back from no brass case, add in the taper and freebore limiting how far back you could seat the bullet, and you'd probably come up with about the same chamber volume the .458 started with,

    Normal engineering standards say a threaded length of 1.5 diameters are are strong as threads get, so a breech plug from 5/8 to 3/4" long would do.


    Black powder performs a bit differently than most smokeless. With black, there's usually no real advantage to a necked-down case, so they were either straight or had long sloping shoulders to neck them down to smaller bullets.

    Smokeless powders typically perform well in necked-down cartridges, and even the angle of the neck makes a detectable difference in performance. PO Ackley used to play with that kind of stuff.


    Anyway, there's no reason you can't plug the chamber and run full .458 smokeless loads. It would be interesting to see how an AK receiver would handle that sort of thing, though.
    Of course, being an AK, it's trivial to re-rivet or replace the receiver if necessary...


    I was looking at building a black powder rifle a few months ago. Barrels are relatively inexpensive, but the lock mechanisms are outrageously priced. So I started looking at inline ignition using ordinary rifle bits, then realized there was no reason not to run smokeless if I used an appropriate barrel, and then found out Savage was already selling smokeless muzzle loaders, and... it was another "learning experience."

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    You could make a "fake bolt"; just a simple stepped cylinder to hold the firing pin, and make the nose long enough to get the pin close enough to the cap.

    A pair of modified needle-nose pliers would make it easy enough to change the cap when the bolt was pulled back. A notched safety would help there. Or if you left the magazine out, you could probably reach your thumb and forefinger in to change the cap.

    No need for patches with smokeless, and no need for fouling shots or BP cleaning hassles.


    Hey, Norinco sold a few muzzle-loading SKSs when the AWB passed, and there are muzzle-loading uppers for the ARs, so it's time someone did an AK!

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Oh its going to get built. I might just make one with standard parts or possably a home made trunion just to do it. there will be a muzzeloading barrel in my switch build barrel set.

    I may just do a black powder version as the rules are a little weird in my state it says black powder or black powder substatutes. well IMOO id like to subsatute black powder for smoke less but I dont think thats what there saying. i bet when I call there talking about pirodex or tripple 7.

    I have a H&R handi rifle that Im going to build a smokeless powder barrel for as well.

    as far as the AK reciver holding up the recoil would likely be less than a 3" slug in a 12 guage Sagia. Ill be using a m70 trunion and a .050 or .060 reciver shell possably stainless. if the sagia can handel heavy slugs then im sure a m70 reciver will be just fine.

    I was thinking about extracting primers and I will just use a cut down rifle or pistol cases to hold the primer on a standard size bolt that will allow me to extract the primmer by pulling the bolt back. Hell I could put gas to the system and have a auto primer ejector and feeder and and then all i would need to do is pour in powder and and ram home a bullet to load. realisticaly a bolt to extract the primer and holder and a bolt holding device like a notched selector lever would be all that needed. propably dont want to be pouring and loading bullets on a primed barrel.

    Here is a link to some builds that got me thinking these guns are very nice and also $3000

    Bad Bull Muzzleloaders

    Custom Muzzle Loaders

    H&R and NEF barrels
    LOADINGCHART

    savage info
    What is smokeless muzzleloading? Savage Accuracy

    Doug's Message Boards - Savage Muzzleloading Message Board

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