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Thread: .357 Maximum Rimless

  1. #11
    TRX
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    You are sick, sick, sick...

    [gets out calipers]

    Hmm, the base diameter of the x39 is .44". No .45 for you. But .44 bullets are .429"!

    1biggun's ".44???" would be a .308-length cartridge. But a .44 Mutt would feed through an ordinary AK action, bolt and all.

    Might be worth thinking about.

  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    what if one used a x39 case and opend it up to take a .45? the case would not need a taper like on the .357 max. the base (x39) is close to a .45ACP, case cap for x39 is 33.45Gr, .45 ACP 27.67Gr. yes a .45 long colt would get the same type of load/ performace, but no semi auto and still could use x39 mags. might make a good brush gun. muttman
    your not going to be able to use a x39 case for a 45 wild cat the od is to small. even a 308 win case would need to be reamed if possable at all. trust me i looked at a .44 on a x39 case it wont happen.

    for the record I was not the orignal guy to propose the 444??? I proposed a 444 marlin rimless made from 30-06 brass cut down then that idea was taken to make it fit into a AK length mag. I have made up the rounds and they can be shot I just need to finidsh the barrel and chamber it some how. here is the x39 a pair of the worlds first 444??? and a 444 BGR (BIG GUN RIMLESS)

    Gunter original sugested cutting my 444 rimless down an I worked with him to come up with a way to form it and make it using 444 marlin dies.

    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f244/44-37230/


    1biggun's ".44???" would be a .308-length cartridge

    WRONG!! THE 444??? THAT GUNTER AND I WORKED ON WAS ALWAYS INTENDED TO FIT IN A AK OR AR MAG. AND WOULD LIKELY USE A 5.56 OR 5.54 MAG. I WAS PLANING ON USING THE NARROW 5.56 ROMMY MAGS. SEE THE PICTURES.

    MY 444 RIMLESS WOULD BE 308 LENGTH AND IT CAN BE FORMED WITH STANDARD 444 MARLIN DIES AN CUT DOWN 30006 BRASS OR BLOWN OUT AND CUT DOWN 308 LENGTH BRASS.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #13
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    A .41 might be doable on a x39 case and would be really good on a 444??? case or a 444 BGR ( rimless marlin) It is one I have wanted to do for a while.

    the whole bigger is better is little bit to much IMOO. I dont see a .50 beowulf being much better than the same round necked down to .41 or 44 there both going to kill or destroy what ever they hit. the smaller bullet is not going to drop like a rock after 75 yarda and reach out further flatter. A 50 is freat but you need some case capacity or a way to run higher pressures to make it much better. I think a 41 or light 44 would be much more usefull.

    on a differant note the 9mm magnum is a straight cased round and brass is avaliable as well as dies and would give simular performance as some of the other 9mm or 357 suggestions. especaly if loaded up in pressure for use in a strong AK action instead of a pistol.

    9 mm caliber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt9mag.htm

    Starline Brass 9mm Winchester Magnum - MidwayUSA

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    BANNED nalioth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    Being a straight case, the cartridges should just slide as necessary to line up in the curved magazine.
    The cartridges will eventually bind, due to the case shape (straight versus bottle-necked [soviet AK cartridges])

    This is why folks don't have the best of luck using .223 in a 5.45x39 magazine (and vice versa).

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    Gunco Veteran muttman's Avatar
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    yes there are problems with a str8 case but the 5.56 works. the mag 5.56 vs 5.45 is a diffrent problem. muttman

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    Gunco Veteran muttman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRX View Post
    You are sick, sick, sick...

    [gets out calipers]

    Hmm, the base diameter of the x39 is .44". No .45 for you. But .44 bullets are .429"!

    1biggun's ".44???" would be a .308-length cartridge. But a .44 Mutt would feed through an ordinary AK action, bolt and all.

    Might be worth thinking about.
    ok you got me on that one, on vacation right now. what if a .308 case was used? I read some ware that a .308 case would be cut down to make a .45 case.
    biggun,
    what Im thiking is not go thrue the steps that hc pooike did, and get a big bore gun yes I could make a .50 but whant to keep it in line with my .45acp for reloading.
    muttman

  7. #17
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    with a .430 bullet (44) there is only .010 differance in the case from the rim to the mouth so its basicaly straight. if you want to use a 45 csal bullet you are going to have to cut the case even shorter and then Inside turn the case to get the bullet to fit.

    I chose to use cut down 30-06 brass on the 444??? because you cut it off just below the shoulder were if you use .308 length brass you ahve to cut it in the middle of the shoulder then expand or blow the shouder straight a lot more work and more wear and tear on the brass.

    by going with a .430 bullet you save a lot of work.

    If you want a .45 AK just buy a reamer in 450 bushmaster and buy the brass already made. its out there now. that would be a really simple way to go.

  8. #18
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    again if your building the rifle from scratch why be stuck with a AR length mag well?? its not much harder to just build the gun to take a .308 win length mag. then there are lots of choices. the 35 remington an 358 win come to mind. your going to want to relaod for almost any of these big bores so a 358 loaded a little lighter is going to be the best bet or 35 remington could likely be shot as is from the factory. I think a 41 cal based on a full length 308 or 358 win case blown ut would likely be damm near as effective as the 450 bush master and would shoot a lot flatter. I have been looking for barrel for such a build.

    the 35 remington was a very popular deer rifle for many years and still is used toay.

  9. #19
    Gunco Veteran muttman's Avatar
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    ok you have twisted my arm to far .357 it is!
    now load data please. would should I folow standard .35 rem load data and work it up from there? muttman

  10. #20
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    from what I recall and there is a thread here some were the 35 remington is loaded pretty light by todays standards. Id look close at the 358 win also if you reload as it can use 308 brass expanded out (i think)

    the only load in my win book on my desk shows a 35 rem loaded with a 200 gr sp using 39 Grs of 748 making 2130 at only 33,000 CUP that is really light IMOO. but its slinging a 200 grain bullet almost as fast a 125 gr 7.62x39 load. yea it will work on deer and anything else it hits. the hottest load in my Lyman book is 35,000 cup

    the 358 win on the other hand is hotter it shows a 200 grain bullet doing 2659 FPS but at a much higher 49,000 CUP as a MAX load how ever the starting load for that same powder and bullet combo is doing 24,000 FPS at only 35,000 CUP. That boys is a 75 grain heavier bullet going the same speed as a AK round at aprox 10,000 CUP less chamber pressure. factor in the formula for the bolt thrust being increassed due to the larger round and its likely still less than a AK round.

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