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Thread: .357 Maximum Rimless

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    Default .357 Maximum Rimless

    Elsewhere 1biggun mentioned his idea for a wildcat on a blown-out 7.62x25 case. I suggested using a .223 case:

    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f108/9x2...tokarev-56302/

    There's a thread on Accurate Reloading about a ".357 Maximum Rimless." Actually, there are several if you use their search function; sometimes it's called ".35 Maximum" though.

    357 Maximum Rimless with a pic - Topic Powered by Social Strata

    I snagged a picture from the thread.

    The .223's nominal diameter is only .003" less than the .357 at the base; once-fired brass would be within the usual SAAMI diametral tolerance.

    Now, the standard 7.62 AK bolt face will accept a rimmed .357 Maximum perfectly, but you'd have to make up a magazine from scratch, or slice'n'dice a Desert Eagle or Coonan .357 Magnum magazine. The Rimless would need a .223 bolt, but it should feed from a 5.56 or 5.56 mag. Being a straight case, the cartridges should just slide as necessary to line up in the curved magazine.

    Numrich has .357 Magnum rifle barrels for $19.95, or did last year anyway.

    I don't know if there's a standard straight machine-tool reamer available in the right size, but you can rent reamers. Theoretically you could use a .38 or .357 Magnum reamer, but you'd have to find one that didn't also cut the counterbore for the rim.

    FYI
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    it would be a pretty anemic round in a rifle calibur IMOO Not enough case capicity for such a heavy bullet. You could likely get 1900 FPS or more with it however ( just a guess) If I was going to build a 9mm rifle round Id look more AT HCpookies 9x39. Or for a real high power round just build a 35 remington or a 258 win. It might make a good wisper type round but so will a normal 9mmx19.

    Theoretically you could use a .38 or .357 Magnum reamer, but you'd have to find one that didn't also cut the counterbore for the rim.
    HMMMM I bet it would work. you have to chamfer a AK barrel any way so the small amount of are were the rim would go rrally would not be a issue. hell the extractor cut on a AK barrel goes close to 50% of the way around the chamber and there is no case bulge from that.

    I just not sure what the round would offer that a 7.62 x39 wont do or. I kike that it uses 223 brass but I dnt like that it has very little taper an would have to head space off the case mouth.

    If you made it 357 length you could use 357 dies. if the Ods are close enough.


    now if you could find a pistol to fire it that might be differant.

    I am looking at the 223 case for a a 9x23 win clone or possably a 9x25 or .38x25 wild cat for use in my m70 Tokerov. Its been done before. I like the idea of a 9x25 round it would be a good round for a AK as well but im not sure what it would give you over whats already out there.

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    I guess I don't understand where you were going with your idea of opening up 7.62x25 to 9x25. It seems like a lot of work unless you can locate some Boxer primed brass x25.

    You could do the same thing by cutting off a .223 to 25mm and stuffing a 9mm bullet into it, and you'd have something reloadable.

    The .357 Rimless link was to show that something similar had successfully been done before. The only difference is case length.

    Or am I missing the point entirely? It seems a shame to have a 45mm case and cut it all the way down to 25mm...

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    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    I form 7.62x25 from .223 brass, so I also don't see the difference. The case head is slightly smaller on the .223 than the 7.62x25, but the .223 brass works fine in my CZ52.
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I guess I don't understand where you were going with your idea of opening up 7.62x25 to 9x25. It seems like a lot of work unless you can locate some Boxer primed brass x25.

    You could do the same thing by cutting off a .223 to 25mm and stuffing a 9mm bullet into it, and you'd have something reloadable.
    starline makes x25 brass and sellar & bellot sell boxer primed x25 finding brass is not a issue. I just figured that since i was going to have to reload any way I might as well take advantage of the 2mm extra mag capacity. as far as cutting down 45mm case to 25 who cares its cheap and heavy duty. guys have been making 9x23mm out of it for a long time even before winchester released the 9x23. If 23 mm win brass was easy to get then I would just use it. the whole point of my project is to get as much out a a converted tokerov pistol as possable. as far as opening up surplus brass its not going to be much work at all it takes me about 2 seconds to pull a bullet. If it can be expanded then its just a matter of dumping the powder and saving for future use adding new powder and seating the bullet. It really wont take much more time than if were seating a primer and loading a normal round. Ill have to see if I can expand it or not. If I can were talkin near or at 357 performance for around 15-20 cents a round VS about a $1.00 for reall 23x9mm stuff. I really cant afford to shoot a pistol for fun unless its cheap and reloadable. ill be able to buy and convert a Tokarev for around $230 and it will give 357 like performance thats hard to beat even with a revolver. not to mention I think I can still shoot 9x19,largo, 9x23 and others.

    I have seen the 9mm maximum before It really doent float my boat due to the small case capacity for rifle use. It would be a good close quarters round in a AK but It will not be good for much over 200 yards. It would be cheap to reloadso it might be a fun gun to have. I can always add it to the switch barrel list LOL.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I form 7.62x25 from .223 brass, so I also don't see the difference. The case head is slightly smaller on the .223 than the 7.62x25, but the .223 brass works fine in my CZ52.
    thats good to know. any trouble forming it?? i saw a sight the other daywere a guy was getting 2000 FPS out of 7.62x25 in a bolt action.

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    Gunco Maniac sjohnson's Avatar
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    Cut'em (.223 case) down to slightly too long. I use a tubing cutter.

    Run them through a 7.62x2 FL resizing die.

    Trim to OAL.

    Skim off excess outer diameter with Forster to match spec.

    Load and shoot. The brass case walls are slightly thicker than 7.62x25, so charge with slightly less powder.

    An easy caliber conversion.
    I have a daughter. I tell her, "911 is what you dial after you're raped. 1911 is what you should have before they try."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    I really cant afford to shoot a pistol for fun unless its cheap and reloadable.
    I guess you were talking "pistol" and I was listening "rifle." Makes more sense now.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    yea I bought a few tokarev pistols from SOG and one of them im going to customize.

    I think a 9mm version of the 458 socom or the 460 Big bore or the 50 beowulf or just a cut down 30-06 case necked down would be a good round. take the 444???? idea and neck it down to 35cal or 9mm and you would have a pretty decent round much better round..

    I have plane Or at least the idea to take the 444????? case and neck it down to 41 but cal but going to 9mm or 357 or 35 rifle cal is a good idea also. it would really be just a .35x1.5 Barnes and it has been done before in rifles. I dont know of any AK or ARs however but i would not be suprised if there was a AR that has been done.

    the 30x1.5 is a good round for the AK. its basicaly just a early version of the 30 benchreast round but made from normal 30-06 brass with a big primer flash hole. some day if I ever find the dies and reamer cheap Imm going to build one.

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    ok I will admit that I have read this post x3, with that said I was thinking ( not good for me) what if one used a x39 case and opend it up to take a .45? the case would not need a taper like on the .357 max. the base (x39) is close to a .45ACP, case cap for x39 is 33.45Gr, .45 ACP 27.67Gr. yes a .45 long colt would get the same type of load/ performace, but no semi auto and still could use x39 mags. might make a good brush gun. muttman

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