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Thread: AK Build in .45ACP

  1. #11
    AKaholic Saigaist's Avatar
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    [quote=1biggun;599076]just get a piece of 4140 from air craft spruce lay a normal flat over it and copy the hole layout it will cost about $5 . That how I do my 308 type conversion recivers.

    you dont need demples even on a normal AK.
    you certainly wont need them on a build that will have a mag well welded in.quote]


    It's clear to me that without some of the required tools I'm pretty much going to have to either pay a lot of money to have a smith do it...or not do it at all. Being on unemployment REALLY blows...and limits me too.

    What I'm going to have to do is buck up and buy some tools. I'm gonna build one of those Grasshopper bending jigs, instead of buying one for $150 from AK Builder. I'm also gonna buy a Mig/flux wire welder from Harbor Freight.

    They have a 160amp MIG/flux wire welder for $100 but with a 220 hook up. They also have a 90amp MIG/flux wire welder with a 110 hook up for $90....will the 90amp be enough to do everything I need on firearm stuff ??

    The 110 would be a LOT easier since I don't have a 220 hook up in my house....I did but it was disconnected so I'd have to get an electrican to come in and do one in my garage...would rather save that money if the 90amp one is good enough...?

    The next 2-4 weeks instead of buying parts kit, parts and ammo I'm gonna concentrate on tooling up. In the long run I'll save a lot of money bending my own flats and doing all my own work.

    I am gonna buy the MAC-10 .45acp grease gun magwell just in case they get hard to get in the next month, everything else I'm sure will be readily available.

  2. #12
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I would not even waste my time on a flux core set up and especialy a harbor frieght one.you need to be able to weld with out splatter and slag. get a true MIG set up with gas. Spend a little more and buy a better set up. A cheap TIG would work for most of your gun needs also.

    I relize you feel that all the parts You need will dissapear suddendly but IMOO you need to relax a bit and concentrate on one project or two and then worry about every other idea that comes to mind. I have way to many projects going and it makes it no fun to do any of it. You mentioned your on unemployment so unless you have a savings acount id really think wht you got to have. trut me when I say its really easy to get several thousand dollars or more in misc small parts that you really dont need . It can easly becone a obsession.

  3. #13
    AKaholic Saigaist's Avatar
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    I would not even waste my time on a flux core set up and especialy a harbor frieght one.you need to be able to weld with out splatter and slag. get a true MIG set up with gas. Spend a little more and buy a better set up. A cheap TIG would work for most of your gun needs also.

    I will look around more for a TIG but they seem to be a little out of my price range, from what I have seen so far they are above $200, some $300+. I'd like to stay around the $100-$150 range if possible. I know the TIG would be better but I have used the flux cord and although it causes more splatter it would only require some extra clean up right, I mean it wouldn't hurt anything as long as I clean up the splatter right ??

    I'm trying to budget myself so I can get a few things instead of 1 expensive thing. While it would be great to have a TIG if I can do it with a MIG/flux cord then I'd settle for the extra clean up.

    The same with a bending jig kind of, the AK Builder one would be GREAT but for $150 I can build a Grasshopper one for about $15 that will get the job done ya know.

    I guess my question is will the Flux cord 90amp welder be good enough to get the job done just have to clean up the splatter ?? It won't damage anything right ??


    I relize you feel that all the parts You need will dissapear suddendly but IMOO you need to relax a bit and concentrate on one project or two and then worry about every other idea that comes to mind. I have way to many projects going and it makes it no fun to do any of it. You mentioned your on unemployment so unless you have a savings acount id really think wht you got to have. trut me when I say its really easy to get several thousand dollars or more in misc small parts that you really dont need . It can easly becone a obsession.

    I'm not to worried about things disappearing I just want to kind of balance it out, buy some tools and buy some parts ya know.

    Like right now I am finishing up the Saiga and going to start on the Romy G build, so I don't have to get all the parts for the .45 build right away, I can get some tools while I'm doing the Romy build.


    What I'd like to do is buy that 90amp Flux wire welder this week if it's good enough to do the job and make that Grasshopper bending jig, then next week buy the Polish UF kit and some of the .45acp parts.

    If I can get that stuff then I'd just buy like 3-4 flats and I wouldn't need to get anything for a good month probably 2.

  4. #14
    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Ugly welds and spatter is about it for a flux core, I used one on my first AMD65 "pistol" build. One day I will re-do it properly but so far no functional problems.

    What you might want to do is see if anyone is having a "build party" within driving distance of you. These generally have several sets of tooling show up and experienced builders will be present to walk you through unfamiliar things. For example, while you could use a MIG or TIG and plug weld your rails in, a modified spotwelder is a lot quicker. easier, and the OEM method. Even if no actual party is scheduled, many builders are happy to help out someone.

    I would also join up on several AK themed forums, I know the AKFiles, for example, has a few Philly area members.

  5. #15
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I guess my question is will the Flux cord 90amp welder be good enough to get the job done just have to clean up the splatter ?? It won't damage anything right ??
    they weld like crap and the welds will look like crap. I have at least 4 of them over the years working for various companys as well as owning a few my self. there just not worth it for any thing nice. spend the extra money and get one that will at least take gas. there are some cheap tigs that do steel only with no foot pedal that would work for you. I cant stess enough not to get a cheap HF unit. Im sre there will be those who dissagree but IMOO there crap. at the least look at the lincon, miller possably hobart 110 set ups with the ability to take gas. the onlu time fluk core might have a advantage on a welder like this is out side in the wind on dirt metal an then Id be using a stick any way.

  6. #16
    Master Endmill Breaker Rhino_66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saigaist View Post
    I have made a list of the parts I believe I will need for this build, they are as follows;

    Arsenal rear trunnion

    16" .45ACP barrel turned for either the Uzi trunion with a barrel nut or for an AK trunnion and also to accept an AK gas block/front sight

    Bulgarian gas block/front sight

    AK rear sight block (maybe a Krink style one if I can shorten the receiver and use a Krink dust cover w/Krink rear sight)

    Tapco Galil style handguards
    Be aware that I used RPK front & rear sight blocks and handguard retainer for my build. I used a Chinese gas block that was bored oversize with an adjustable reamer. I turned my barrel specifically to utilize the RPK components.

    RPK DIMENSIONS
    Chamber -------------- 0.908"
    Rear Sight Base ------- 0.885"
    Handguard Retainer ---- 0.847"
    Gas Block ------------- 0.758"
    Front Sight Base ------ 0.608"

    Chinese gas block ----- 0.634" bored to 0.680"

    None of my components were pinned to the barrel. I soldered them to the barrel with tin/lead solder and liquid flux. High-temp silver solder is not necessary as the blocks completely sleeve the barrel. The barrel wall is just not thick enough to risk pinning the blocks.

    Your parts list does not show a handguard retainer. Since you quote "Tapco Galil style handguards", it is assumed you will use an AKM size retainer.

    EURO PATTERN BARREL:
    Chamber -------------- 0.908"
    Rear Sight Base ------- 0.694"
    Handguard Retainer ---- 0.671"
    Gas Block ------------- 0.594"
    Front Sight Base ------ 0.575"

    .45ACP bore diameter -- 0.451"

    EURO PATTERN BARREL:
    Chamber ----------------- 0.908" - 0.451" = 0.457/2 = 0.228" wall thickness
    Rear Sight Base ---------- 0.694" - 0.451" = 0.243/2 = 0.122" wall thickness
    Handguard Retainer ------ 0.671" - 0.451" = 0.220/2 = 0.110" wall thickness
    Gas Block ---------------- 0.594" - 0.451" = 0.143/2 = 0.072" wall thickness
    Front Sight Base --------- 0.575" - 0.451" = 0.124/2 = 0.062" wall thickness

    The wall thickness at the handguard retainer is insufficient and the retainer notch would break through into the bore or weaken the wall enough to cause a rupture during firing.
    The gas block and FSB wall thickness is insufficient and would most likely split or possibly explode.

    You need to sit back and do some more planning before jumping in with both feet on this project. Your current parts list and planned barrel machining would result in a weapon with a dangerously thin barrel.

    There are a few options for you to consider...

    -You could use RPK barrel blocks.

    -You could have a machinist replace the rings on the Euro pattern barrel blocks with larger rings.

    -You could fabricate a combo gas/front sight block with a larger diameter, eliminating the need to thin the barrel for additional components.

    -You could consider using a Saiga .308 gas block and handguard. The Saiga parts would eliminate the need for a separate handguard retainer. The gas block on my .308 measures right at 0.712" diameter. A Saiga .308 front sight block would probably also suffice. WTB posts on the Saiga-12 forum might source these parts. The problem will be that you would need a larger diameter rear sight block, either RPK or possibly Saiga.

    I would suggest drawing everything out in 1:1 scale and working out your design before buying any parts. You need to actually find out what is going to interfere or break through the bore of the barrel.



    .
    The most damning evidence is the truth.

    That which does not kill you, really really really hurts...



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  7. #17
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    What RHINO 66 SAID. iD BE LOOKING AT THE RPK PARTS AS MENTIONED. THERE ARE SOME AFTERMARKET LARGER OD GB.S AS WELL. THE RSB CAN HAVE THE OLD RING CUT OFF AND THEN WELD THEN WELD THE RSB TO A LARGER OD SLEAVE. i HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE . ON A BLOW BACK YOU COULD ALSO LIKELY WELD THE RSB DIRECTLY TO THE TRUNION AS THE TRUNION WILL ONLY SERVE TO HOLD THE BARREL AND THE LUGS WONT NEED TO HANDEL AMY PRESSURE. A GALAIL STYLE TUBE COULD POSSABLY BE RIGGED UP AS WELL AND DO AWAY WITH THE rsb COMPLETLY. LOT OF WAS TO SKIN THIS CAT.

    I NEED TO GET SOME RPK GBS FOR SOME PROJECTS MYSELF. i REALLY WISH 20 OR 12 GUAGE SAIGS GB WERE AVALAIBLE.

  8. #18
    AKaholic Saigaist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino_66 View Post
    Be aware that I used RPK front & rear sight blocks and handguard retainer for my build. I used a Chinese gas block that was bored oversize with an adjustable reamer. I turned my barrel specifically to utilize the RPK components.

    RPK DIMENSIONS
    Chamber -------------- 0.908"
    Rear Sight Base ------- 0.885"
    Handguard Retainer ---- 0.847"
    Gas Block ------------- 0.758"
    Front Sight Base ------ 0.608"

    Chinese gas block ----- 0.634" bored to 0.680"

    None of my components were pinned to the barrel. I soldered them to the barrel with tin/lead solder and liquid flux. High-temp silver solder is not necessary as the blocks completely sleeve the barrel. The barrel wall is just not thick enough to risk pinning the blocks.

    Your parts list does not show a handguard retainer. Since you quote "Tapco Galil style handguards", it is assumed you will use an AKM size retainer.

    EURO PATTERN BARREL:
    Chamber -------------- 0.908"
    Rear Sight Base ------- 0.694"
    Handguard Retainer ---- 0.671"
    Gas Block ------------- 0.594"
    Front Sight Base ------ 0.575"

    .45ACP bore diameter -- 0.451"

    EURO PATTERN BARREL:
    Chamber ----------------- 0.908" - 0.451" = 0.457/2 = 0.228" wall thickness
    Rear Sight Base ---------- 0.694" - 0.451" = 0.243/2 = 0.122" wall thickness
    Handguard Retainer ------ 0.671" - 0.451" = 0.220/2 = 0.110" wall thickness
    Gas Block ---------------- 0.594" - 0.451" = 0.143/2 = 0.072" wall thickness
    Front Sight Base --------- 0.575" - 0.451" = 0.124/2 = 0.062" wall thickness

    The wall thickness at the handguard retainer is insufficient and the retainer notch would break through into the bore or weaken the wall enough to cause a rupture during firing.
    The gas block and FSB wall thickness is insufficient and would most likely split or possibly explode.

    You need to sit back and do some more planning before jumping in with both feet on this project. Your current parts list and planned barrel machining would result in a weapon with a dangerously thin barrel.

    There are a few options for you to consider...

    -You could use RPK barrel blocks.

    -You could have a machinist replace the rings on the Euro pattern barrel blocks with larger rings.

    -You could fabricate a combo gas/front sight block with a larger diameter, eliminating the need to thin the barrel for additional components.

    -You could consider using a Saiga .308 gas block and handguard. The Saiga parts would eliminate the need for a separate handguard retainer. The gas block on my .308 measures right at 0.712" diameter. A Saiga .308 front sight block would probably also suffice. WTB posts on the Saiga-12 forum might source these parts. The problem will be that you would need a larger diameter rear sight block, either RPK or possibly Saiga.

    I would suggest drawing everything out in 1:1 scale and working out your design before buying any parts. You need to actually find out what is going to interfere or break through the bore of the barrel.



    .

    Yea I'm glad I listed my parts before buying any...I figured I would list them first just to make sure they would work...obviously they will not.

    Thanks for the heads up much appreciated !

    I'm going to look around for RPK barrel assemblies and see what's available.

    What front trunnion did you use also ? I was talking to Biggun about this and the chineese ones are a good idea but extremly hard to find correct ??

    Do you recommend any other front trunnions ?

    The last thing I want to do is try and rush this project...not only because I want it to be perfect but because I don't want to risk any injuries. I have plenty of stuff to do for now while I learn more abotu this .45acp build and get some ideas together.

    Before I actually buy anything I want to get a list of everything I need and make sure it's right for this build. I appreciate everyone's help a lot.

    My definite parts list so far;

    RPK barrel assemblies and handguard retainer

    if not the RPK then maybe Saiga .308 barrel assemblies, depending on availability

    I'm still looking for a receiver to use

    Pretty much the rest of the build parts such as rear trunnion, FCG, dust cover, ect...can be any AK style correct ?

    The more important parts are the barrel, barrel assemblies and front trunnion it seems, so I'll work on those first.

  9. #19
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    19mm trunions are very hard to find and you wont need one or want one as long as your barrel is 23mm at the breach end,

    there are no 308 saiga parts to speak of except for furniture. Ihavent seen a 308 bolt for sale in 5 years and I look. accasionaly there is a cut up kit on gun broker from a fire arm demilling out fit that does police conscifactions but its extramly rare. RPK Gas bocks and RSB,s are avaliable seperatly you dont need a barrel assembly just the parts. RSB, hand guard retainer, GB, FSB, ETc. this will not be a cheap project for you with out machine shop tools.

    thompson 45 barrels used to be avalaible. im not sure what the OD f the breach end is but they might be worth looking into. Bulgy AK 74 kits have 22mm trunions

    a blow back can be made using a home made trunion but thats tough for you to do with no mill. Id find the barrel first Id use a $100rommy kit as a doner and go from there. those NDS small mag well $43 recivers that take the Bulgy AK 74 trunions are a good deal also. A barrel less 74 kit would be a good strt also for about $70 more than a Rommy. It would be the best way to go for a 9mm or a x25 as the bolt is the correct size. ON a 45 ACP every thing needs to be custom. I honestly feel the 9mm or x25 would be a much much easier build for you.. every thing would be cheaper and easier to find. A 45 build is tough and expensive woth out a mill and lathe. and then there is the cost off ammo 45,s are not cheap to feed.

  10. #20
    Gunco Regular mrtank's Avatar
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