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Thread: Saiga 410 to 500 S&W conversion

  1. #11
    Gunco Regular willie's Avatar
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    I only put my wife's foot in my mouth (I'm perverted that way). Own a few 74style rifles and always looking for a short bench/prone mag. Thought I missed a recent Tantal 20rd 5.45 magazine importation. Own a few of those 20rd 7.62x39 Hungarian mags and like em. Modded many mags in the past but factory mil mags are #1!

  2. #12
    Gunco Member Lunyfringe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    As far as 460 S&W/454 Cas/ 45 LC I won't say it can't be done but I'd pick the 454 if possible cuz that LONG straight 460 case is going to play hell with feeding. Did modify some of my brass with a small chamfer just ahead of the rim so the the rims don't hang up on the next round in the mag. Like Tony Rumore said in his post, finding a mag that works is the biggest hurdle. As far as lug strength I suggest you tread with caution. The test done for action strength was on my rifle and your lugs may or may not be the same. I did my own testing with Die penetrate and bolt set back measurements. I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL PROOF TESTER.
    points well taken- magnafluxing or other dye testing is a good idea- I wonder if the .410 lugs are the same as on a Saiga-12? could run some calculations based on max pressure in the lugs of a 12ga with magnum loads- lots of surface area on 12ga compared to .410! (I have a Saiga-12, but not a .410... yet)
    I certainly wouldn't hold you liable because you did something, and I was stoopid enough to copy it (but with a different round & load) without due diligence to ensure my own safety.

    starting with a .410 was where I started, because it's capable of feeding a 3" plastic shell (and the base diameter is roughly the same)... .460 S&W should be easier to feed... but would need different mags for .460, .454 or .45LC- can't imagine that a short round in a long mag would perform well.

  3. #13
    Gunco Regular willie's Avatar
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    I bought the Saiga 410 with the conversion in mind. Back then it was about $220 (?) NIB. I did thread the trunnion and barrel. If you are a member of the AKF do a search under my name and my earliest posts will be this rifle. This wasn't my most labor intensive firearm project but when you are having fun what the hell. Gunco is the best cuz of the honest input, knowledge and appreciation of its members.

  4. #14
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    Yeah that was nice when the Saigas sold for about the same price as a low end AK, I got my 410 for just over 200 too.


    Thanks for the pics and info, I like it even though the red dot looks odd out front, when you remount it post a pic.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  5. #15
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I got a 410 waiting for some thing. Im actually considering keeping it a shot gun but with a rifled barrel and then using brass 2.5" shells with bUllets seated out like a rifle round in standard 3" mag. this would effectivly give you around a 44 rifle with only a barrel change. and it would/should still shoot 3" standard shotgun slugs. I would just copy the original barrel profile with the breach shroud and all. It would be a 410 SGFH Im sure the pressures could be bumped up to 444 marlin levels easly as its already been done. SIMPLY TAKE A 2.5" SHELL LOAD IT LIKE A RIFLE ROUND STICK IT IN A 3"MAG THAT WILL ALLOW FOR BULLET PROTRUSION ADD A RIFLED BARREL AND YOU WOULD HAVE A CHEAP BIG BORE AK THAT TAKES FACTORY SAIGA MAGS AND IT WOULD STILL SHOT SHOTGUN SHELLS. barrel would need to be 18" to be legal. need to figure what bullet/calibur is best for the factory case. im sure a one of the .41 , .430. .45 offerings would work. reamers are easy as a any 410 shot reamer should work.

    IT REALLY SUCKS THAT A 410 SHOT GUN IS NOT LEGAL FOR DEER HUNTING IN WISCONSIN. I SUSPOSE i COULD RENAME IT A 444 STRAIGHT AND BUILD A NEW RECIVER AND JUST CALL IT A RIFLE BUT THEN I CANT HUNT SHOTGUN ZONES WITH IT. ALWAYS A CATCH.

    KEEP IN MIND THAT 410 BRASS SHELLS CAN BE MADE FROM 444 MARLIN CASES BLOWN OUT STRAIGHT. A RIMLESS VERSION COULD BE MADE FROM 30-06 BRASS ALSO

  6. #16
    TRX
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    IT REALLY SUCKS THAT A 410 SHOT GUN IS NOT LEGAL FOR DEER HUNTING IN WISCONSIN. I SUSPOSE i COULD RENAME IT A 444 STRAIGHT AND BUILD A NEW RECIVER AND JUST CALL IT A RIFLE BUT THEN I CANT HUNT SHOTGUN ZONES WITH IT
    Hmm... if you rebuild it on a bent blank you don't have to declare it one thing or another. If it's loaded with .410s it's a shotgun; if it's loaded with .444s it's a rifle. How can anyone prove otherwise?

  7. #17
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Hmm... if you rebuild it on a bent blank you don't have to declare it one thing or another. If it's loaded with .410s it's a shotgun; if it's loaded with .444s it's a rifle. How can anyone prove otherwise?
    I think (not sure ) if it will fire a shot gun shell then its a shot gun and needs to be 18" however there are shot shell loads for many calibure of pistols and rifles. I do that guns like Hubles SGFH get away with being legal due to the abiltiy to still fre a factory shell and therefore are not classifed as a destuctive device ( a rifle over 50 cal) even though it will shoot a brass cased 4" or so long rifle looking cartrige with the bullet seated out exactly like a rifle.

    Either way it wont help me much in 410 or 444 as 410 shot gun is not legal in WI and a 444 rifle is not legal in the shotgun/pistol only zone I want to hunt in. Im dammed if I do and dammed if i dont. the only option is a pistol and I have that base covered in several caliburs the 444?????? wil fit the bill some day as welly as well if I ever get it done. a 410 shotgun/ rifle would have been the answer as it would be as good as a 45-70 and still been a shot gun. It would fly in minnosota

  8. #18
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    Nah, all you need is one of those old Savage doubles that was .308 on the top and 12 gauge on the bottom, and you could be illegal no matter what the season was...

  9. #19
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I have one and it wont fly in this state. Mine is a 222/20G i also have a 30-30/12. I cant hunt with it in a shot gun zone. yet im perfectly legal with a 308 AK pistol with a 16" barrrel an a 30 round mag. LOL shows how stupid some of our laws really are.

    I dont want to hijack this thread any further I have a 410 with rifled barrrel and the round loaded like a rifle some were already started.

    now if I did a 500 S&W with a new reciver on a sagia 410 bolt and trunion then I could hunt any were >

  10. #20
    Gunco Member Lunyfringe's Avatar
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    I did a few quick calcs, a .460 S&W (or a .500 S&W, for that matter) are really in uncharted territory with regards to lug pressure.

    The only thing on par is a .308 (Saiga, Vepr, etc) I know the Saiga uses a 3-lug design, so I'm thinking .454 casull is the very high end I'd do for a .410 conversion... it's
    caliber approx force
    12 Ga - 2.5 tons
    .410 - 1.1 tons
    308 win - 5.6 tons
    .460 s&w- 5.9 tons

    so proceed at your own risk!

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