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Thread: Saiga in .70-150 Winchester

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    TRX
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    Default Saiga in .70-150 Winchester

    When I first learned of Ed Hubel's "12 Gauge From Hell" the Voices said, "you could shorten one of those and chamber a barrel for a Saiga-12." For those who aren't familiar with the 12gaFH, it's a .729 caliber wildcat cartridge. The forming instructions begin with, "first you take some .50 BMG brass and blow it out straight..." You'd have to shorten one considerably to get it into a Saiga-12, though.

    However, it just came to my attention there's another big bore that might be might be more appropriate - the Winchester .70-150.

    from Wikipedia:

    "The .70-150 Winchester is a hypothetical American centerfire rifle cartridge.

    Appearing on cartridge boards of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1888, it may have been nothing more than a display novelty based on a brass 12-gauge shotshell (rather than the paper cases common at the time, or plastic frequently seen today), shortened and necked-down slightly.[1] Only one rifle was ever chambered for it, and it was never offered commercially."

    Bullet diameter .705, neck .725, rim .870, case 2.18, OAL 2.63, recommended twist 1:16. 900 grain bullet.

    The levergun and cowboy action forum hits say Winchester made more than just one rifle, and that the Model 1887 shotgun (the one Arnie carried in Terminator 2) could be had in .70-150 through 1905.

    Either way, Winchester *did* make a .70-150, and it can be formed from a 12 gauge brass case, and it should fall into the same "destructive device" antique exemption as the .577 Snider and the big Nitro Express cartridges.


    So, if your .500 S&W or .50 Beowulf is starting to seem a little weak in the knees, and you haven't fused your shoulder socket yet, there is a bigger, badder step you can take...

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    Gunco Regular willie's Avatar
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    MR. TRX,
    You have suceded admirably in undermining my ego. I feel undergunned and depressed. Thanks.
    Your friend,
    Willie

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    "It should fall"... not sure. Shotgun rounds are not included, thus the 12 GFH is not a DD round.

    From the Manual of Cartridge Conversions, I recall that was considered a "novelty" round built to generate marketing hype, and may not have ever been chambered. There is a sample on the wall in the Cowboy Hall of Fame Museum in Oklahoma City. I didn't think to take a pic of it at the time
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    lot of bolt thrust with that big case.

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    Hmm, I just went to atf.gov to quote the relevant text to you, but I noticed it says the rifle *AND* the ammunition must be older than 1898.

    Interpreting that, you'd have an NFA violation if you shot a .577 Snider or .70-150 in a modern rifle, or rebarreled a .577 into a modern >.50 sporting cartridge.

    Looks like I need to drag out my ATF info packet and do some more reading.


    Willie's ego is safe for the moment!

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    That's just the point - I don't think there WAS a rifle in that caliber!

    Now that I'm home, yes, the cartridge is on p. 408.

    Data Source: NAI/Ballistek

    Historical Data: Likely a gimmick by Winchester. No commercial production.

    Loading Data (source JJD):

    900 gr lead
    95 gr IMR 3031

    Case Prep:

    Cases can be made from brass 12 ga shotgun shells or turned from a solid 1" brass rod..
    Sounds close to the 12 GFH alright
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    just do a brass cassed 12 SGFH with a rifled barrel and seat the bullet out like on a rifle round. You wont need any longer of a case I trim them down so they fit in a standard mag with the bullets protruding. I think bumping the pressure up much would be risky on the sagia so Im sure you could get as much velocity as possable with even a 2.5" case.

    there would be a lot of force on the rivets and reciver on one of these. look at the recoil forces of a 3.5" 12 guage slug its way the hell up there

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