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Thread: Saiga .410 to .45-70?

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    TRX
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    Default Saiga .410 to .45-70?

    I got one of those evil flyers in from J&G Sales, and they had Saiga .410s at $299. I had a brief moment of insanity before slipping my credit card back into my wallet...

    So, there's a brand-new Saiga .410 laying on the bench. And since there were some .45-70 cartridges laying around, the Voices got all excited, despite the fact they've been no help finishing off the dozen-odd projects I've already started. And there's a spare, chambered .45-70 barrel leaning against the wall.

    The .45-70 will almost go into the Saiga mag. The Saiga bolt would require welding some extra metal on the fixed extractor hook - it has two, one fixed, one spring-loaded. The problem is the GIANT RIM on the .45-70. But a little welding, a little filing, a little more filing in the plastic magazine rim slots, and replace the barrel, and I don't see why .45-70 wouldn't work. Well, except for cutting off the bottom of the gas block and welding a bigger tube to it, but that's no big deal.

    In fact, it looks like a lot less work than Willie's .500 S&W conversion.

    .444 Marlin ought to be easier, but I can't find any .444 brass in the box at the moment.

    Presented FYI. I'm not going to do this. I have way more than enough projects going already.

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    TRX
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    The Saiga magazine will accept cartridges up to 2.75" long.

    It will, of course, accept rimmed cartridges.

    Other magazines could be adapted.

    The bolt is flat, with no recess. Only the extractor hooks have to be adjusted to accept any rim size.

    The firing pin is sprung. Stoutly, too; stouter than the Polytech spring I bought for my Beowulf build.

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    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    TRX you got one of the Beowulf's? What do you think of it, I've read reports and it sounds impressive, but what about longer ranges, never heard anything about that part. Sounds more like a close up caliber, but I haven't read any reports about longer range performance, what's the poop? I'd considered an upper from Bushmaster for my 223 lower as well as a x39 upper, 3 different caliber guns with one lower, sounds like a win win to me.

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    Gunco Regular akfiend's Avatar
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    What about building it from a psl kit and getting an rpk gas block? The .45-70 rim is only 1mm larger in diameter than 7.62x54r and rim thickness is roughly the same. You could build it on a coldsteel blank and make the magwell custom to fit whatever mags would feed the cartridge good.

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    TRX
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    twa: I'm still building mine. I haven't had a chance to work on it since early this year. Now that I'm getting caught up it's ratcheting back up to the top of the queue, though. Uh, it's an AK build, not an AR.

    akfiend: By the time you buy a PSL kit and a receiver kit, you've spent more than $299. I probably should have bought a PSL instead of the Saiga, but you know how it is, affliction of sudden enthusiasms and so forth.


    Looking at the Saiga as a build platform... it's a complete functional firearm. But at $200 or so for a kit, plus a flat, 922r parts, rivets, and various odds and ends, roughly equivalent in price to a Romy G, at least this week. Plus it's already set up to cycle a .30-06 length cartridge, if you want to modify the receiver to take a BAR mag.

    I have a double-underfolder AK build going, using a Romy kit and a Mossberg barrel. At the time I started it, kits were still $109 and Saigas were $189, and by the time I bought a Saiga and converted it, it was cheaper to build a "real" AK. Now it's not looking that way.


    If the price stays below $300, the Saiga .410 and the rifles (the .223, at least was the same price) may become the new "AK kits."

    (finds sale flyer)

    .410 $299
    .223 $299
    5.45 $299 (would have been a steal, before 5.45 went up in price)
    7.62x39 $289 (?)

    The price for a WASR10 in the same catalog is $429.95. They're not showing the .308 rifle or 20 or 12 gauge shotguns in this flyer.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    444 Marlin ought to be easier, but I can't find any .444 brass in the box at the moment.
    Tony at tromix built a 444 marlin and it powrked fine except it would not feed 100% from a stock mag. there is a thread here some were about it. he used the shrouded barrel like the 410 has. . the 444 marlin can be also done in rimless with cut down 30-06 brass or blown out 308 brass. I have a thread on doing it some were. i have never got it done as i swithed to a 444???? project and got the barrel profiled but never got the chamber finished. the rimless versions as well as likely a rimed 444 malrin can be done on a regular AK kit.

    IMOO a 444 marlin cna be done much easier on a 410 sagia. I have one and I looked at the the 45-70 and felt the 444 would be a better choice.

    as I recall HCpookie was doing a 45-70 on a PSL or something like that. there has been a 45-110 or some thing like that built as well there is a thread here on it.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    They're not showing the .308 rifle or 20 or 12 gauge shotguns in this flyer.
    i HAVENT SEEN A 20 GUAGE SAGIA IN A LONG TIME FOR SALE ARE THEY STILL IMPORTING THEM?? A FEW YEARS BACK THERE WAS A GUY ON ANOTHER FORUM BUILDING A 45-70 ON A 20 GUAGE.

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    Gunco Member Lunyfringe's Avatar
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    The 22" .308 isn't around, either... or the longer-barrelled shotguns. There was this interesting bit of info at Classicarms:
    Temp_down

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    Happy Camper hcpookie's Avatar
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    Ah yes the 45-70! I am planning to do mine based on a PSL bolt and trunion. No idea about the ability of the Saiga .410 to handle that load. I know the whole discussion about prevoius conversions, but that doesn't validate what it can and cannot handle. I plan to load mine with the H-O-T loads from the Hornady manual that calls for use in a Ruger #1 only. I put it on the back shelf when Real Life started to interfere with my gun buildings and I haven't dug it back out. I really need to get my butt in gear and revisit that build!

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    The 22" .308 isn't around, either... or the longer-barrelled shotguns. There was this interesting bit of info at Classicarms:
    Temp_down
    yeap no mention of a 20 guage. I havent seen one advertised new in ages.

    an extra $200 for the 308 that dont cost $5 extra to make. If they really wanted to move these and seel them fast they need to sell them for around the same price. I just dont under stand there plan. if they can make a profit at $299 on a 223 then they can amke a profit ona 308 at around the same price. Not to mention they would sell a ton of them. Id but them an turn them into parts parts kits at that price. that about all there good for in stock trim any way. LOL

    a 444 marlin build on a $299 410 would be a good project. tromix has proved they will hold up tot he pressure.
    I have propsed a 410 SGFH style round in the past using brass 410 shells loaded with bullets that protrude just like a rifle round. adda rifled barrel and you got a 410 rifle. as I recall 410 brass can be made form 444 marlin. the mag issues tromix had would have to be worked out. he didnt produce it as it would not feed from unmodifed mags.

    I really want a bucket full of 308 bolts and trunions if im going to continue building much else these days.

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